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Heard a great solution to FISA
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 8 2008, 4:25 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 8 2008, 4:25 AM EDT
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Tell Republicans that once Obama becomes president he will use spypower on the likes of Limbaugh, Coulter, et al
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democrats.com
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Coverage
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Jul 8 2008, 2:38 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 8 2008, 2:38 AM EDT
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I just received an email from democrats.com. The first section is entitled "Defeat the Wiretap Bill" and has links to our myOB group, this wiki, and our Facebook groups. I haven't been able to find this on their website, but I'll keep looking and will post it here when I find it.
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Anonymous |
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warantless wiretaping
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What we'd like to hear from Senator Obama
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Jul 8 2008, 2:14 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 8 2008, 12:49 AM EDT
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one problem with signing a bill that will allow unfettered access to everyone's information is that there can be a feast of blackmailing. does this mean that the telecom companies will get to run our country? if they have some dirt on you and you are in the public eye or they can pretend to have some dirt, does that mean you are at their mercy??? is this why no one wants to call their bluff now?? come on, you are better than that!
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Last Reply:
RE: warantless wiretaping
By: ,
Jul 8 2008, 2:14 AM EDT
I don't even think that it has to be about blackmail.
If the changes to FISA go through, don't think for a moment that the Republicans won't be spying on Obama. Democrats who vote for the new bill are giving the election to McCain instead of having them steal it from us, in some sort of latter-day Watergate-type break-in and cover-up. They won't even have to break in! They'll be able to listen to Obama's phone calls, read his e-mails, all legally. All Obama's strategies (or any Democrat's!) will go down the drain because some Karl Rovian turd-blossom will be listening somewhere and planning like a Grinch to steal America back from the disenfranchised and the un-listened-to.
Read what Buzzflash has to say about this at: http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1677
It's got to stop here. The Constitution is eroded enough. Funny twist of irony -- all of THEIR e-mails strangely disappear at the White House, and all of OURS will be catalogued somewhere! Even this Wiki might be catalogued on some NSA hard drive!
We all have to rededicate ourselves to fighting for our civil liberties. FISA always worked and had built-in safeguards that Bush never followed. Bush started spying MONTHS before 9/11.. Enough is enough. It's Tea Party time. George Lakoff is good at framing the new discussion at:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/the-mind-and-the-obama-ma_b_111105.html
where he talks about what Obama stands to gain or lose by adopting certain strategies.
Read the important article by Glenn Greenwald about how the talking points of the new FISA bill are completely ungrounded and are confusing the real issues:
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/05/monarchy/index.html
Call your Senators to get them to help with the filibuster; call your Representatives, too, because they're friends with your Senators!
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Anonymous |
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looseheadprop
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Response to Senator Obama's July 3 statement
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Jul 7 2008, 2:57 PM EDT by
Anonymous |
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 1:03 PM EDT
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I would include amoung the reference materials, a multi part series written By David Kris (former Assistant AG for National Security and author of THE definative survey of existing national security law called imaginatively "National Security Law" from West Publishing) over at Balkininzation.
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/06/guide-to-new-fisa-bill-part-i.html
and
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2008/06/guide-to-new-fisa-bill-part-ii.html
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Last Reply:
RE: The letter
By: Posted Anonymously,
Jul 7 2008, 2:57 PM EDT
Y 'all are wasting your breath, or your typing digits.
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Plans for after Tuesday?
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Logo
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Jul 7 2008, 12:34 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 3:04 AM EDT
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Will this group dissipate, or become a general 4th amendment advocacy group, or what? A good logo takes a lot of time and effort, and I'll be happy to work on one, but I need to know where the group's headed.
I had joked in a private message about names like "Liberaltarians" or "A bitter bill to swallow".
-Beth
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Last Reply:
RE: Plans for after Tuesday?
By: ,
Jul 7 2008, 12:34 PM EDT
No problem. Something has come along in the meanwhile that has been getting used on twitter and such. Essentially Obama's O with get fisa right on it. I'll try to load it to this page. There's a lot of admin scrabling going on right now just to get calls going!
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Anonymous |
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If all else fails, move up the sunset date
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Archives
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Jul 7 2008, 12:29 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 7 2008, 12:29 PM EDT
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I am not predicting failure, but we have to be ready to switch gears should all of the key amendments fail.
HR6304 will sunset in 2012, before the next Presidential election. The bill should instead sunset next year, forcing the new President and the next Congress to deal with it.
Sean from Eastern Iowa
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McConnell (KY)
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List of Senator Specific Facebook Groups
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Jul 7 2008, 9:45 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 11:55 PM EDT
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I will create the McConnell Facebook group and let progressive bloggers know of its existence.
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Last Reply:
top priority senators
By: ,
Jul 7 2008, 9:45 AM EDT
Collins (ME), Whitehouse (RI), McCaskill (MO), Webb (VA), Kohl (WI), Cantwell (WA), Lautenberg (NJ),
Sununu(NH)
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Anonymous |
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Cancel telecom service
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Today's priorities
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Jul 7 2008, 2:18 AM EDT by
Anonymous |
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 10:39 PM EDT
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Mr. Dennis Strigl, President & CEO
Verizon
140 West Street
New York, NY 10007
Dennis.Strigl@verizonwireless.com
Dear Mr. Strigl,
I have been a Verizon customer for several years, using a cell phone and wireless card for business. I have paid thousands of dollars in service fees.
At this time, I wish to end my service through Verizon at the end of the current billing cycle, AND, I expect NOT to be charged an early termination fee based on the following information:
1. I have honored the requirements of our agreement by paying for services; you have broken our agreement by not protecting customer privacy as outlined in our agreement.
2. Verizon Says It Turned Over Data Without Court Orders
Firm's Letter to Lawmakers Details Government Requests
By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, October 16, 2007; A01
Verizon Communications, the nation's second-largest telecom company, told congressional investigators that it has provided customers' telephone records to federal authorities in emergency cases without court orders hundreds of times since 2005.
AT&T and Verizon both argued that the onus should not be on the companies to determine whether the government has lawfully requested customer records.
I feel violated, just as though someone had entered my home and gone through my personal papers and belongings.
3. WASHINGTON, May 12 — The telecommunications company Qwest turned down requests by the National Security Agency for private telephone records because it concluded that doing so would violate federal privacy laws, a lawyer for the telephone company's former chief executive said today.
Mr. Strigl, Verizon has armies of attorneys who know that it is not legal to turn over customer records without a court order or warrant. It really is that simple.
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Last Reply:
RE: Cancel telecom service
By: Posted Anonymously,
Jul 7 2008, 2:18 AM EDT
Don't let them bully you. I once changed my debit card (called bank and paid $5 for updated card and acct. number) just to avoid the draw that I knew they'd try to make even after I explicitly cancelled my acct. I told them they could take me to court for the $, but that they'd be facing a countersuit for attempted unauthorized account access.
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Spying on Obama
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 7 2008, 12:42 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 9:35 AM EDT
Watch
If the FISA amendments go through, don't think for a moment that the
Repugnicans won't be spying on Obama. Anyone who agrees with the new bill, I guess, just wants to give
the election to them instead of having them steal it from us, in
some sort of latter-day Watergate-type break-in and cover-up. They
won't even have to break in! They'll just be able to listen: to Obama's
phone calls, read his e-mails, and whatever else they decide to do
next that over-reaches THAT bill! All of Obama's (and any other Democratic candidate!) strategies will go down
the drain because some Karl Rovian turd-blossom will be listening
somewhere and planning like a Grinch to steal America back from the
disenfranchised and the un-listened-to.
Funny twist of irony -- all of THEIR e-mails strangely disappear at the White House, and all of OURS will be catalogued somewhere!
Read what Buzzflash has to say about this at:
http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1677
It's got to stop here. The Constitution is eroded enough.
On this July 4th holiday weekend, we all have to rededicate ourselves to fighting for
our civil liberties. Obama's flip-flop might seem to be a good strategy to win
the election by not appearing soft on terrorism, but FISA always
worked and had built-in safeguards. Enough is enough. It's Tea Party
time. Listen to Thom Hartmann read and interpret the Declaration of
Independence at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HofsDY8DgqM
It's 15 minutes WELL spent!
And listen to "A Declaration for Our Times" at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tC_MF4giZxw
I urge you all to call your Senators to get them to help with the
filibuster, and call your Representatives, too, because they're
friends with your Senators!
--- Steve >>>>
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Last Reply:
RE: Spying on Obama
By: ,
Jul 7 2008, 12:42 AM EDT
That's a great article and I bet his hasn't even occurred to the Obama campaign yet. They will be spied on using this compromise..
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Anonymous |
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More Senators need to hear from us
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 6 2008, 9:41 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 6:40 PM EDT
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The focus on Barack is fine, but I think it may be beneficial to contact others like those listed on the Volunteers page who will also be voting for the FISA bill on Tuesday.
Even if we were to change Obama's mind, the bill would still pass thanks to all these goofballs.
Please take some time and spread the effort around.
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Last Reply:
RE: More Senators need to hear from us
By: ,
Jul 6 2008, 9:41 PM EDT
totally agree. we've been changing the message to emphasize "call your senators", and are doing outreach on Facebook focused on multiple senators ...
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immunity from law breaking
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 6 2008, 7:28 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 7:28 PM EDT
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A modest proposal: Ask Congress to have the CEO's of the Telecom companies respond under oath at a hearing on why their companies broke the law. I am sure that no one knows who these people are and that makes the whole situation very ephemeral. Seeing these moral midgets on CSpan trying to justify their actions will personalize the affair, just as seeing the Tobacco CEO's explaining why nicotine is not addictive helped the fight against Big Tobacco.
Larry
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Anonymous |
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A suggestion
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 6 2008, 2:33 AM EDT by
Anonymous |
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Thread started: Jul 6 2008, 2:33 AM EDT
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There should be as many people as possible in attendance at the actual Senate vote on Tuesday. It looks like citizens must get passes from their Senator's office in advance. More details here:
http://www.senate.gov/visiting/common/generic/visiting_galleries.htm
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Happy 4th everyone!
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 4 2008, 8:25 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 4 2008, 8:25 PM EDT
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Many blessings to all on the country's birthday! Thank you for all your hard work. Relax, enjoy friends and family, and recharge. We'll need it for next week. The declaration of independence makes for appropriate light reading this weekend:
http://www.let.rug.nl/~usa/D/1776-1800/independence/doi.htm
Peace!
--bubfranks
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FISA, assault on not one but two amendments.
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 4 2008, 7:05 PM EDT by
Anonymous |
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Thread started: Jul 4 2008, 7:05 PM EDT
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The amendment most often forgotten is the 1st amendment. Much of the talk revolves around the actual spying and the privacy issues. The immunity provision is a direct attack on our first amendment, specifically the right of the people to petition their government for a redress of grievances. Immunity is dangerous TWICE because it tries to deny this right not only to sue the telecoms, but perhaps to even challenge the law itself in courts. If Congress can get away this this one, they can turn off any part of the constitution at will, simply by including a provision saying we can't sue anyone.
This would have the capability of destroying the Constitution and the Courts at once unless the Courts have the guts to ignore the law and state outright that they will here the case and then hold immunity as unconstitutional and an assault on the people's right to petition the courts.
See my article.
http://www.reelectnoone.com/no_immunity.php
Please pass the word
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Priorities for July 4?
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Today's priorities
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Jul 4 2008, 1:02 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 4 2008, 1:02 PM EDT
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Please discuss!
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Anonymous |
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Obama's new statement on FISA
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Discussions elsewhere
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Jul 4 2008, 10:18 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 4 2008, 1:21 AM EDT
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Check out Glenn Greenwald's point by point response to Obama's statement at Salon.com
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Last Reply:
RE: Obama's new statement on FISA
By: ,
Jul 4 2008, 10:18 AM EDT
"Check out Glenn Greenwald's point by point response to Obama's statement at Salon.com" Is that the same as the one at UTDocuments, or a different one? In any case, could somebody please add the link!
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Sign the Senate Petition to Stop Telecom Immunity
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Open letter repostings
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Jul 4 2008, 12:52 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 3 2008, 4:22 PM EDT
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Senator Feingold needs our help to stop the FISA "compromise" bill. Please read it and then sign Democracy For America's Senate Petition to Stop Telecom Immunity. DFA will deliver the petitions to every Senator on Tuesday morning, right before the expected vote.
link: http://www.democracyforamerica.com/activities/92
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Did we just get our response from the Obama campaign?
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 3 2008, 5:22 PM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 3 2008, 3:11 PM EDT
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about 2 hours and 15 minutes ago the emails to the MyBo group stopped flowing. As far as I can tell the Obama campaign turned off the emails to all groups. I was, however, able to join a different group and I received an email confirmation, so their email server is working fine.
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Last Reply:
RE: Did we just get our response from the Obama campaign?
By: ,
Jul 3 2008, 5:22 PM EDT
my guess is that it was just their servers getting overloaded. we were seeing delays starting yesterday, typical of systems under load. there's more in the comments on the openleft thread at http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6751
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Anonymous |
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Responsible Plan
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Ten Congressional Candidates Position Statement on Civil Remedies
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Jul 3 2008, 10:04 AM EDT by
Anonymous |
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Thread started: Jul 3 2008, 10:04 AM EDT
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The Plan includes a lot of other great stuff, and fits very well with Obama's statement that we want to end the war, and end the mindset that got us into war. It's been endorsed by quite a few candidates (54 House candidates, and 4 Senate candidates), although some of these failed to win the nomination.
So far there are no sitting members of Congress. Check out the website - there hasn't been much activity on the Plan of late that I can see, but moving forward it would be great to channel the energy of this group into getting more endorsees to the Plan.
http://responsibleplan.com
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A few suggestions for success
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Discussion Forum
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Jul 3 2008, 9:41 AM EDT by
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Thread started: Jul 3 2008, 5:25 AM EDT
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-The wiki needs some simplification. It feels overwhelming right now and kinda unfocused. I think, since the aim of the Wiki seems to be action then every page should make it easy and apparent to visitors what needs doing RIGHT NOW.
-We somehow must find a way to make the signatories over at MBO aware that this wiki exists. Not sure how that happens, besides writing blog posts and making contact with widely read bloggers and MSM. Getting those signatories moving on this is going to make the difference.
-I put up some new stuff in the volunteers area that I think will facilitate the next steps... recruiting volunteers and getting them to coordinate citizen lobbying in their own states of their own Senators. I've included tables with lists of Senators who voted against the Dodd/Feingold amendment last time it was in the Senate. Volunteers simply fill in their name/contact info next to their Senators' names and go to work... Again, volunteers will not come if there is not awareness built at MBO and other sites about this wiki.
That's all I've got for now.
Cheers!
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Last Reply:
RE: A few suggestions for success
By: ,
Jul 3 2008, 9:41 AM EDT
Wow -- thank you for all this. Focusing volunteers on the senators who voted against the amendment last time is really great. (We're kicking around another idea that would parallel this nicely.)
Could you email Jon Pincus to talk some about this?
thanks very much,
aviva032
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