Get FISA Right - Recently Updated Pages

November 10 Organizing Call

Hwaisbren — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:01:15 CST

	Maintaining Momentum: A Patriot Act/FISA organizing call Tuesday, Time 4:00 PM PST/ 7:00 PM EST Dialin number: 1-219-509-8111 Access code: 705723 You are cordially invited to an a phone call and online chat discussing the Patriot Act/FISA legislative situation-- and what we can do about it. Please join in pre-meeting discussions on the Get FISA RIght blog or in the chat room below!

Maintaining Momentum: A Patriot Act/FISA organizing call
Tuesday, Time 4:00 PM PST/ 7:00 PM EST

Dialin number: 1-219-509-8111 Access code: 705723

You are cordially invited to an a phone call and online chat discussing the Patriot Act/FISA legislative situation-- and what we can do about it.

Please join in pre-meeting discussions on the Get FISA RIght blog or in the chat room below!

Goals Assess and progress on current strategies Plans in place post-HJC markups: tweetchats, open letter, online organizing trainings, etc. Continue making progress on longer-term issues: blogosphere outreach, media, stories, ... Draft Agenda Intro, goal, agenda check. (5 min) Update on legislative status (5-10 min) Strategy assessment and brainstorm (10-20 min) Next steps for Tweetchats (5-10 min) Next steps for open letter (5-10) Action items and next steps (5 min) Join in pre-meeting discussions on the Get FISA Right blog or in the chat room to the right------------------------------------------->>>>> Resources Patriot Act Action Hub Draft open letter Blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform Discussions of the PATRIOT Act on Twitter List of House Judiciary Committee members Twitter and Facebook accounts Media Contact List Instructions for Twitter and getting-started info

Goals

Assess and progress on current strategies
Plans in place post-HJC markups: tweetchats, open letter, online organizing trainings, etc.
Continue making progress on longer-term issues: blogosphere outreach, media, stories, ...

Draft Agenda

Intro, goal, agenda check. (5 min)
Update on legislative status (5-10 min)
Strategy assessment and brainstorm (10-20 min)
Next steps for Tweetchats (5-10 min)
Next steps for open letter (5-10)
Action items and next steps (5 min)

Join in pre-meeting discussions on the Get FISA Right blog or in the chat room to the right------------------------------------------->>>>>

Resources

Patriot Act Action Hub

Hwaisbren — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:52:34 CST

	This page is a central hub for relaying news and actions during the Patriot Act reauthorization debate. The House Judiciary Committee markup of Patriot Act and FISA reform legislation continues Thursday morning 11:00 AM EST---webcast available here. Please join us for another tweetchat by tweeting to #PatriotAct (if you do not have twitter you can participate in it as a chat room) during the hearing once again for discussion and activism! If you are a blogger, please feel free to use our blogger resources page! .

This page is a central hub for relaying news and actions during the Patriot Act reauthorization debate.

The House Judiciary Committee markup of Patriot Act and FISA reform legislation continues Thursday morning 11:00 AM EST---webcast available here.

Please join us for another tweetchat by tweeting to #PatriotAct (if you do not have twitter you can participate in it as a chat room) during the hearing once again for discussion and activism!

If you are a blogger, please feel free to use our blogger resources page!

Actions to Take Participate in our HJC markup tweetchat in the column on the right----------->>>>> Tweet from our latest listing of suggested tweets Help collaboratively write our new open letter Send this EFF action alert to your congressman Take ACLU action: Ask your representative to co-sponsor the USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009. Write a blog post using our blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform Join our Facebook status campaign Help craft our "narrative in progress" Send a Letter to the Editor using our template In the News GFR's quick summary of the markup and tweetchat Marcy Wheeler update on Day 1 of HJC Patriot markup EFF post on the HJC Patriot Amendments Act markup Marcy Wheeler's liveblog of the HJC Patriot Amendemnts Act markup HJC Chairman John Conyers takes to the Huffington Post to discuss the Patriot Act reform bils The Center for Democracy and Technology discusses how the House Patriot Act bill draws broad support on account of National Security Letter fix: Jon Pincus posts on social network activism and the future of civil liberties EFF explains the two new surveillance bills	*We are relaying news and action items in a Tweetchat below. Click here to find the webcast, and tweet to #patriotact or comment in the chatroom to participate:* Other Resources Get FISA Right blog Blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform HJC Tweet Construction Page List of House Judiciary Committee members Twitter and Facebook accounts Instructions for Twitter and getting-started info

Actions to Take

Participate in our HJC markup tweetchat in the column on the right----------->>>>>
Tweet from our latest listing of suggested tweets
Help collaboratively write our new open letter
Send this EFF action alert to your congressman
Take ACLU action: Ask your representative to co-sponsor the USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009.
Write a blog post using our blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform
Join our Facebook status campaign
Help craft our "narrative in progress"
Send a Letter to the Editor using our template

In the News

GFR's quick summary of the markup and tweetchat
Marcy Wheeler update on Day 1 of HJC Patriot markup
EFF post on the HJC Patriot Amendments Act markup
Marcy Wheeler's liveblog of the HJC Patriot Amendemnts Act markup
HJC Chairman John Conyers takes to the Huffington Post to discuss the Patriot Act reform bils
The Center for Democracy and Technology discusses how the House Patriot Act bill draws broad support on account of National Security Letter fix:
Jon Pincus posts on social network activism and the future of civil liberties
EFF explains the two new surveillance bills

We are relaying news and action items in a Tweetchat below. Click here to find the webcast, and tweet to #patriotact or comment in the chatroom to participate:

Other Resources

Get FISA Right blog
Blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform
HJC Tweet Construction Page
List of House Judiciary Committee members Twitter and Facebook accounts
Instructions for Twitter and getting-started info

Below are Patriot Act & FISA tweets aggregated through Get Fisa Right's Twazzup page (more details)

HJC Patriot Markup Tweetchats

Hwaisbren — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:26:45 CST

Text: Day 1 tweetchat log

Text: Day 2 tweetchat log

Day 1 Markup Tweetchat text

Hwaisbren — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:25:46 CST

HJC Patriot Amendment Act Markup Tweetchat

GetFISARight:
Join us this afternoon 4 our tweetchat on the HJC #patriotact markup: http://bit.ly/3vLcFr Pls RT

GetFISARight:
Thanks 4 the RT's about our #patriotact tweetchat http://bit.ly/3vLcFr @cyn3matic @korkie @brons @myrnatheminx!

HarryWaisbren:
Welcome to the tweetchat!

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie, if you (or anyone else) has any questions about how this works absolutely do not hesitate to ask

korkie:
oh ...... I will tweet the info about the mark-up and tweet chat every 15 - 30 minutes. I like to catch folks on their coffee tweet break.....

korkie:
I also hope you interpret what is going on like you did last time. So much more interesting when you actually know what is going on .......

HarryWaisbren:
Your retweeting is quite appreciated! And agreed expert interpretation makes it much better. We're going to be working to complement Marcy Wheeler's liveblogging in that regard as well.

GetFISARight:
@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #patriotact reform, please also sponsor H 3846! (Please RT) http://act.ly/R1a

HarryWaisbren:
@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #patriotact reform, please also sponsor H 3846! (Please RT) http://act.ly/R1a

HarryWaisbren:
John Conyers posted about the Patriot Act and this hearing on the Huffington Post. Perhaps we use this for a new tweeting point? http://bit.ly/2TIyYZ

jdp23:
good suggestion on the Conyers article

Tester:
Just testing the interface

HarryWaisbren:
John Conyers writes about the effort to reform the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2TIyYZ

HarryWaisbren:
Conyers cites Obama saying: "we must never, ever, turn our back on [the Constitution's] enduring principles for expedience sake" #patriotact

ACLU:
Live@ 12:30pm - House Judiciary Committee Markup of USA PATRIOT Amendments Act http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/caltoday.html #patriotact

triumph68:
RT @ACLU Live@ 12:30pm - House Judiciary Committee Markup of USA PATRIOT Amendments Act http://judiciary.house.gov/... #patriotact

GetFISARight:
Looking forward to following @ACLU tweets on the HJC #patriotact markup!

HarryWaisbren:
@triumph68 if following the HJC #patriotact markup, u may want 2 check out our tweetchat: http://bit.ly/3vLcFr (btw--I'm from Milwaukee 2 :)

korkie:
rt @GetFISARight Looking forward to following @ACLU tweets on the HJC #patriotact markup! \\ me too!!

HarryWaisbren:
You are rocking with the RT's Korkie! Do you have any ideas for other tweets we should send out?

HarryWaisbren:
And to anyone just joining us, welcome to the tweetchat! You can take part by tweeting to #patriotact and/or by using this as a chatroom.

Please let us know if you have any questions!

jon:
hi all, i'll be in and out today -- multitasking as usual

Jim Burrows:
Sorry I'm late

BleuZ00m:
Hello everybody.. it's Amy

HarryWaisbren:
Welcome to the tweetchat Amy and Jim!

korkie:
a mind is a terrible thing to lose ....... I can't find the link to the webcast. I've have GOT to clean out my email folder...

ACLU:
Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress it's Time to Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie---it's on the HJC schedule's page. Yuu just RT'd it I believe from @ACLU

korkie:
duh ...... told you my mind was mashed potatoes ......

triumph68:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress - Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

HarryWaisbren:
One thing we will want to constantly be considering throughout this event is what tweets we should be sending out.

For instance, seeing @ACLU's request for an RT, I'm off to send that out (we are linking to thier action in our "take action" panel on our Action Hub by the way)

jon:
http://judiciary.edgeboss.net/real-live/judiciary/17223/256_judiciary-coj_2141_070212.smi

korkie:
muchas gracias ..

GetFISARight:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress - Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

jon:
Harry, I added the tweetchat link at the top of the page. I'll see if we can embed it ...

HarryWaisbren:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress - Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

Fochik:
RT @GetFISARight RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now Congress Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks Jon!

BleuZ00m:
Thank YOU for the ACLU link! Great get!

Denzil:
Good morning all.

philosopher1967:
RT @Fochik: RT @GetFISARight RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now Congress Reform Pat (cont) http://tl.gd/r8vs

HarryWaisbren:
Good morning to you too Denzil

mfpdx:
RT@ACLU Can't wait 4 HJC #patriotact markup? Take Actn Nw! Tell Cong. it's Time 2 Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

barroombetsy:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress it's Time to Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM

jdp23:
it's Jon again, still testing things out with CiL

Jim Burrows:
I take it the playlist gets you to a feed that isn't transmitting yet? T

korkie:

jdp23:
hey that worked! and yes, Jim, the feed isn't transmitting yet.

HarryWaisbren:
What do you mean by the "playlist" Jim?

Jim Burrows:
The URL is an SMI which is a playlist.

BleuZ00m:
RT @GetFISARight RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now Congress Reform Pat http://tl.gd/r8vs Thanks Jon! #p2

korkie:
rt @HarryWaisbren @triumph68 if following the HJC #patriotact markup, u may want 2 check out our tweetchat: http://bit.ly/3vLcFr

korkie:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress - Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

HarryWaisbren:
I tweeted this quote out from John Conyer's Huffington Post article out before but thought I'd reemphasize it:

When he spoke before our founding documents at the National Archives last May, President Obama echoed Justice Brandies: "As a citizen, I know that we must never, ever, turn our back on [the Constitution's] enduring principles for expedience sake."

Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-conyers/a-patriots-patriot-act_b_344480.html

Perhaps that's a quote we could add to our open letter to Obama or us in some other way?

korkie:
So should we be tweeting on twitter or chatting here?

whenpigsflyyy:
TELL CONGRESS it's Time to END #patriotact ABUSES. Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM (via @ACLU ) #Justice #policestate #p2

HarryWaisbren:
Both Korkie :)

c_mcnamara:

HarryWaisbren:
Whichever you prefer I'd say in terms of chatting vs twitter. Definitely tweet anything you think should be broadcast to your followers of course, as it'll get to both places.

Jim Burrows:
Weere there any sites you wanted me to watch in particular Harry -- Wheer other's are live blogging or the like? Sorry I',m late in getting setup.

korkie:
rt@ TELL CONGRESS it's Time to END #patriotact ABUSES. Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM (via @ACLU ) #Justice #policestate #p2

HarryWaisbren:
Denzil, you have been quiet since your introduction. Please make sure to ask if you have any questions or anything!

HarryWaisbren:
But of course feel free to be an onlooker as well :)

BleuZ00m:
@freedomsfriend Hey Andy.. in on a #getfisaright tweetchat re: HJC Markup of USA #patriotact http://judiciary.house.gov/.. update you later

HarryWaisbren:
Jim---I'd say watching FDL adn relaying back just about anything from Marcy would be a great start. I'd also check to see if Julian Sanchez or Kevin Bankston or live blogging

Brons:

jdp23:
Hi Denzil, this is Jon -- thanks for joining us!

HarryWaisbren:
@whenpigsflyyy if following the HJC #patriotact markup, u may want 2 check out our tweetchat: http://bit.ly/3vLcFr

Courtney:
Hi All, here as a follower and supporter of your efforts

HarryWaisbren:
Hi Courtney, thanks for your support and for joining us in the tweetchat!

Jim Burrows:
I'm now getting "unsupported transport" on the webcast. Anyone else seeing video? What app?

BleuZ00m:
Q for Jon, Harry: one of my firewalls flags the 's3.amazonaws.com' query as a DoS vulnerability. Will clear it, yes?

jdp23:
the video doesn't seem to be up yet.

korkie:
me too

HarryWaisbren:
Not seeing a video yet. We won't know until it starts I believe

Jim Burrows:
It WAS saying that it wasn't there, Jon. It just changed.

BleuZ00m:
Welcome Courtney and glad you're here!

Denzil:
Sure, I'll definitely ask when the occasion arises. As of right now I've just been passively listening to the conversation. :)

Denzil:
Hi there Jon!

snookerst:

Jim Burrows:
It is now transmitting. Real player is showing video. Quicktime player doesn't support it.

jdp23:
yikes

jdp23:
jim, any suggestions on how to get it up in Real Player?

Jim Burrows:
So far it's just background noise and the US seal.

korkie:
nothing here

Jim Burrows:
On my mac I opened that .smi file in Real Player.

Jim Burrows:
Not sure how on Windows.

Jim Burrows:
Video is now live of the conference room.

HarryWaisbren:
I just got it up through Real Player. Video is live (they're getting ready), and audio is just background noise

korkie:
jim . I don't know what you did. I'm on a mac and still do not have access .... help?

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie, do you have real player?

korkie:
yes

jdp23:
Korkie, when i clickedon the link at http://judiciary.edgeboss.net/real-live/judiciary/17223/256_judiciary-coj_2141_070212.smi it offered me my choice of which application to use -- QuickTime is the default. I selected RealPlayer and it worked

korkie:
oh wait ..... it says quick play

HarryWaisbren:
Yeah, I only have had success using real player with these

Courtney:
Not working with my windows media, will try downloading real player

jdp23:
if anybody who's on Twitter could tweet the following, that'd be great:

jdp23:
if you're having problems following the #patriotact hearing at http://is.gd/4N7re with QuickTime or WindowsMedia, try RealPlayer instead

HarryWaisbren:
The Congressional video feed is a pretty sad joke. They need to get it together---have easily embeddable video that works with any player!

GetFISARight:
if you're having problems following the #patriotact hearing at http://is.gd/4N7re with QuickTime or WindowsMedia, try RealPlayer instead

korkie:
is there a difference between real play and quicktime player?

HarryWaisbren:
if you're having problems following the #patriotact hearing at http://is.gd/4N7re with QuickTime or WindowsMedia, try RealPlayer instead

korkie:
how do I download realplayer?

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie--Yes, I believe that very well is your problem there

korkie:
Got it!!

bethshepsut:
RT @ACLU Can't wait for HJC #patriotact markup? Take Action Now! Tell Congress it's Time to Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM

Jim Burrows:
You can load Real Player, he free version with the blue button at the top right of http://www.real.com/

korkie:
okay ...... let the games begin.

HarryWaisbren:
Ha, beat me too it Jim!

here's the link to Real Player's free player if you want to skip a step: http://forms.real.com/real/player/blackjack.html?platform2=Mac&product=RealPlayer%2011&proc=g3〈=&show_list=0&src=realhome_spmac_bb_0_1_1_0_0_2_0,macjack

korkie:
thanks

HarryWaisbren:
that's if you ahve a mac above

Jim Burrows:
It looks like none of the others: Windows media, Quicktime or VLC can handle the feed. Certainly none of them can on a Mac.

eff:
PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Our congress needs to follow Al Gore's suggestion in "The Assault on Reason" and have all congressional hearings play out live on TV and the web scheduled for prime time viewing.

All these hurdles make it harder for citizens to follow what govenrment is doing.

normative:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in HJC about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

ACSLaw:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq #patriotact

korkie:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in HJC about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Finally, up on RealPlayer. Hearing live sound, vid seems to lag, some buffering. Korkie, let us know when you've got it, k?

korkie:
I'm good to go!

Denzil:
I'm seeing the feed as well. My audio seems sync'd.

korkie:
my audio is sync'd also. It's all good!

Jim Burrows:
I don't seem to be lagging or badly synched. Roll call Just now finished as I sent this.

Denzil:
Yep.

Courtney:
all set with feed

jdp23:
BlueZ00m, on your earlier question: S3 should be okay to let through

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Jon. I thought so, was startled.

BleuZ00m:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in HJC has begun! Webcast: http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert: http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact #GETFISARIGHT #p2

HarryWaisbren:
Glad 2 see @normative tweeting the HJC markup! Any sent 2 #patriotact will be aggregated in our @getfisaright tweetchat http://bit.ly/3vLcFr

ACLU:
Call to order @ HJC #patriotact markup hearing: Watch Tweets http://twubs.com/patriotact & http://www.twazzup.com/?q=%23patriotact

BleuZ00m:
(Conyers beginning his opening..) is everyone up and viewing live? Anybody need more help? Pls advise?

korkie:
#patriotact bill mark-up in HJC has started ! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

korkie:
I am up and running.

HarryWaisbren:
RT @EFF: #patriotact mark-up in HJC about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br via @normative

korkie:
rt @ACLU Call to order @ HJC #patriotact markup hearing: Watch Tweets http://twubs.com/patriotact & http://www.twazzup.com/?q=%...

HarryWaisbren:
Conyers: "we have a real opportunity before us to reexamine osme of hte most extreme provisions in the law"

jdp23:
i was up and running but just lost audio and the video froze. anybody else having problems, or is it just me?

Jim Burrows:
Just you.

HarryWaisbren:
Hope that isn't license to capitulating on other aspects...You have to be cynical at this point in light of the SJC

Denzil:
I'm still running strong.

jdp23:
ok, thanks.

korkie:
reload

cyn3matic:
RT @HarryWaisbren @EFF: #patriotact mark-up in HJC abt 2 start! Webcast http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert http://eff.org/r.1br via @normative

HarryWaisbren:
Conyers listing 3 critical changes ot the law:

1. fixes overly borad stnadsarsd currently applying to NSLs and so called business records. gov will need concrete facts showing info is connected to terrorist, terorrist activity, or terrorist agent.

Jim Burrows:
Show evidence OR be supervised by a judge.

HarryWaisbren:
2. allows lonewolf provision to expire

tabathanoack:
RT @ACLU Call to order @ HJC #patriotact markup hearing: Watch Tweets.

BleuZ00m:
( we need clarification on which Court, which judge will have jurisdiction)

HarryWaisbren:
Anyone care to invite @tabathanoack to the tweetchat (I don't want to spam my other followers with too many invites)?

We should invite/reinvite anyone who RT's anything related to this hearing. Make it as easy as possible for them to find it :)

HarryWaisbren:
I just heard a buncho f murmuring, but couldn't hear what he was saying, anyone know what happened?

letslets:
RT @PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about 2 start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

CS_Network:
Patriot Act hearing now. Reform will benefit charities: RT @HJC #patriotact markup hearing: Watch Tweets http://twubs.com/patriotact

Jim Burrows:
I take it that there are a lot of Republicans in the room. Smith offered to go to a vote now. I assume he thinks he could defeat it.

rkref:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

normative:
Lamar Smith suggests that adding civil liberties safeguards to #patriotact "expands terrorist rights"

alex1984:
RT @EFF PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Wow! All they have to do is disavow someone to make them a "lone wolf". That's a really nasty reading of the act.

korkie:
@tabathanoack Join us PATRIOT bill mark-up in HJC about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

GUInstituteLSGS:
RT: @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. - Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

ymsp82:
I am morally certain that Smith's argument re AQ disowning a terrorist is bunk. #patriotact

allisonkilkenny:
RT @AdamSerwer @normative Lamar Smith (R-TX) suggests that adding civil liberties safeguards to #patriotact "expands terrorist rights"

privacyala:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Com now! Webcast http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact #privacy

normative:
Insane lies from Lamar Smith (R-TX): Without #patriotact Lone Wolf, Al Qaeda can just "disavow" agents to immunize from surveillance

BleuZ00m:
Smith reminds me of Giuliani: noun verb 9/11.

HarryWaisbren:
what a joke that politicians can get away with saying that it's not a concidence no attacks have happened sicne 9/11.

As if the anthrax attacks never happened....And those were used toj ustify wa in Iraq!!

jdp23:
anybody who's on Facebook, could you do me a favor and see if you can respond to this thread without becoming a "fan" of Quigley? http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?topic=11396&uid=158963645688

HarryWaisbren:
I'm adding EFF's alert to the actions on our action hub: https://secure.eff.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=443

korkie:
rt @normative Insane lies from Lamar Smith (R-TX): Without #patriotact Lone Wolf, Al Qaeda can just "disavow" a (cont) http://tl.gd/r9c4

korkie:
rt @normative Lamar Smith suggests that adding civil liberties safeguards to #patriotact "expands terrorist rights"

GetFISARight:
RT @ymsp82: I am morally certain that Smith's argument re AQ disowning a terrorist is bunk. #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Nadler rocks: strongly decries NSL.

Denzil:
Wow, I totally don't agree with Smith's argument.

korkie:
rt @ymsp82 I am morally certain that Smith's argument re AQ disowning a terrorist is bunk. #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Rep. Lamar Smith is on twitter. How about we tell @LamarSmithTX21 what we think!

Jim Burrows:
Nadler is doing a great job plus-or-minus the speed reading of his statement.

BleuZ00m:
PATRIOT bill mark-up in HJC has begun! Webcast: http://eff.org/r.5bq Now: Rep Nadler decries National Security Letters. Yes! #patriotact

korkie:
miss it ... whose speaking now?

Denzil:
I can't read the name...

Jim Burrows:
Sensenbrenner

HarryWaisbren:
Marcy Wheeler is liveblogging: http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/patriots-and-state-secrets-live-blog/

HarryWaisbren:
Anyone have ideas for a @LamarSmithTX21 tweet campaign?

rkref:
RT @AdamSerwer: RT @normative Lamar Smith suggests that adding civil liberties safeguards to #patriotact "expands terrorist rights"

seksi:
RT @EFF PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. starts! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Jim! Oh, how Sensenbrenner's voice just drips disdain, hauteur. Grrr..

Jim Burrows:
Sensenbrenner seems very concerned about protect his reputation as author of the USA PATRIOT Act and finger pointing.

binarybits:
RT @normative: Insane lies from Lamar Smith: Without #patriotact Lone Wolf, Al Qaeda can just "disavow" agents to immunize from surveillance

korkie:
PATRIOTs and State Secrets Live Blog: http://bit.ly/1zswzR #patriotact

Denzil:
Extended!?!

korkie:
my thoughts exactly Jim

jdp23:
Sensenbrenner: NOT my fave.

eff:
#patriotact watch: Lamar Smith (R-TX)-"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data!

HarryWaisbren:
@emptywheel is live blogging the HJC #patriotact markup: http://bit.ly/1XdwHv

Jim Burrows:
"That's YOUR administration not OURS" is the classic example of that.

BleuZ00m:
'Not one of the 16 provisions unconstitutional,' say he?!

BleuZ00m:
(Paging Holder???)

Julian:
Did Lamar Smith just suggest that w/o Lone Wolf, Al Qaeda can just publicly disavow an agent to immunize him from FISA surveillance?

talat hamdani:
sensenbrenner the crafter

jdp23:
Marcy Wheeler made an interesting point: very few Democrats were there at the quorum call.

HarryWaisbren:
RT @emptywheel Repubs in HJC #patriotact markup keep saying there were no hearings on reauthorization. I guess hearing I watchd was illusion

normative:
Sensenbrenner wants in on #patriotact lying action: Pretends PatriotAct didn't radically transform NSLs from 1986 statute

HarryWaisbren:
Other producers on this tweetchat----please keep checking the "Recent comments" bar ot make sure we publish everything. Thanks

Jim Burrows:
We should not arrogate to ourselves the responsibilities of judges. Now THERE's a turn-around.

jdp23:
Yes Julian he did say that. we're thinking of giving him some feedback on that on Twitter.

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: Lamar Smith (R-TX)-"We cant connect the dots unless we 1st collect the dots" those "dots" are *our* private data!

korkie:
RT @emptywheel Repubs in HJC #patriotact markup keep saying there were no hearings on reauthorization. I guess hearing I watchd was illusion

BleuZ00m:
Yep. Thanks Harry!

smfordo:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: Lamar Smith (R)-"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But "dots" are *our* private data!

korkie:
rt @normative Sensenbrenner wants in on #patriotact lying action: Pretends PatriotAct didn't radically transform NSLs from 1986 statute

michaelgmccoy:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: Lamar Smith(R-TX): We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots. But those dots are *our* private data!

jdp23:
RT @EFF #patriotact: Lamar Smith (R-TX)-"We cant connect the dots unless we 1st collect the dots" those "dots" are *our* private data!

normative:
Sensenbrenner & co keep complaining about #patriotact "hyperbole," but I note they're the ones who keep getting simple facts wrong

korkie:
rt @MSNBCWatcher RT @EFF #patriotact watch: Lamar Smith (R-TX)-"We cant connect the dots unless we 1st collect the (cont) http://tl.gd/r9f4

TAC_NISO:
RT @EFF: #patriotact Lamar Smith (R-TX)"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data!

c_mcnamara:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch Lamar Smith (R-TX) "We cant connect the dots unless we 1st collect the dots" those "dots" are *our* private data!

Jim Burrows:
A lot of hurt feelings on both sides. Conyers again brings up the "we debated one bill and then at the last moment over night it was replaced by another version" with a certain amount of resentment counter-balancing Sensenbrenner's CYA and disdain.

msnbcwatcher:
I recommend following @EFF for coverage of today's #patriotact mark-up hearing in the House #p2

normative:
Librarians are fighting the good fight on #patriotact, but never got why book info is sacrosanct but ISP logs are fair game

CS_Network:
Live webcast of #patriotact hearing and mark-up. Patriot Act reform is crucial for charities being able to help those who need it most.

korkie:
rt @MSNBCWatcher I recommend following @EFF for coverage of today's #patriotact mark-up hearing in the House #p2

jdp23:
good point Jim. this has been going on for a long time and there are hard feelings all around.

CS_Network:
Live webcast URL http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html #patriotact

korkie:
rt @CS_Network Live webcast URL http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/calendar.html #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
@normative I am still shocked by @LamarSmithTX21's "insane lies" as you put it on the #patriotact

businessquests:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: L. Smith (R-TX)-"We cnt connect the dots unless we 1st collect the dots"-But those "dots" R *our* private data!

normative:
WHAAA? Smith says if libraries protected in #patriotact "all al-Qaeda has to do is open a bookstore". What planet is he on?

Courtney:
where are all the dems?

ymsp82:
Lamar Smith: "All AQ has to do now is open a book store." Now THAT would be suicide. #patriotact

normative:
Lamar Smith reveals he's clueless about what pen/traps do. ProTip: It's not 1978 anymore. #patriotact

ACLUNV:
#patriotact markup going on NOW. Take Action! Tell Congress it's Time to Reform Patriot Amendments http://bit.ly/32CjHM <-pls R/T

Jim Burrows:
(sorry missed a few minute. My keyboard died and needed replacing)

korkie:
rt @ymsp82 Lamar Smith: "All AQ has to do now is open a book store." Now THAT would be suicide. #patriotact

korkie:
rt @ACLUNV Lamar Smith: "All AQ has to do now is open a book store." Now THAT would be suicide. #patriotact

ACLU:
Lamar Smith= Wrong! #FISA should allow surveillance of AGENTS of foreign powers. Individual surveillance, not mass surveillance. #patriotact

korkie:
Don't know Courtney. was wondering the same thing...

HarryWaisbren:
I just started an act.ly retweeting campaign to Lamar Smith: http://act.ly/Res

Here is the text: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

We can edit it, but once we decide on tweeting campaigns let's all make sure to spread them far and wide!

GetFISARight:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Funny theng, Rep Sessenbrenner, but the complaint of a last minute switch was voiced in the Senate, too.

korkie:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

normative:
@ACLU Wait, I don't know about that. FACILITY-SPECIFIC warrant that names a group, not an individual, is fine. #patriotact

CS_Network:
@ACLUNV List of congress members to call in support of #patriotact reform on our website sidebar http://www.charityandsecurity.org/

HarryWaisbren:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

korkie:
rt @GetFISARight @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

Tosfm:
RT @ACLU Smith= Wrong! #FISA should allow surveill of AGENTS of foreign powers. Individual surveillance, not mass surveillance #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
"All Al Qaeda has to do is open a bookstore to be immune" now.
Boy they are laying this on thick.

sivavaid:
RT @normative: Lamar Smith says if libraries protected in #patriotact "all al-Qaeda has to do is open a bookstore"

normative:
Dude. Stop bragging that powers bundled with gag orders haven't been ruled unconstitutional (yet). #patriotact

korkie:
Get your shovels out. It's gonna be deep today

HarryWaisbren:
@aclu we started a campaign to expose @lamarsmithtx21's un-American desire 2 give up liberty 4 security: http://act.ly/Res #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks for RT'ing our new campaign Korkie!

Anyone else on twitter, we are sending out this:

@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

@mgill006:
Dear @LamarSmithTX21 feel free to give away your rights, but don't tread on me! Freedom isn't Free

Brons:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

lmclaug:
RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up House Judic. Comm.abt to start! Webcast http://eff.org/r.5bq, EFF alert at http://eff.org/r.1br #patriotact

korkie:
HAH!

Denzil:
LoL!

BleuZ00m:
Whoa yeah, give it to Smith about that bogeyman crap, 'AlQaeda buying a bookstore..'

Jim Burrows:
"How droll...

korkie:
love this man....

RadioFreeIran:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://is.gd/4N9NF Pls RT #patriotact

TheGillShow:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://is.gd/4N9NF Pls RT #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
RT @emptywheel: 2nd time @lamarsmithtx21 tells Al Qaeda how 2 find loopholes in HJC bill. Why is he working so hard to help AQ? #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
(snark: would AlQaeda bookstore sell 'Going Rogue' at full price, or $ 4.97 like NewsMax?)

ACLUNV:
can't get my players to work....i'm going to rely on y'all for some tweets

HarryWaisbren:
RT @emptywheel: Mike Quigley complains that the classified hearing leaves him wondering what he can share with staffers. #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Hi Rebecca.. can you close and reinit Real Player?

Denzil:
Smith's argument is weak and they keep pushing "All Al Qaeda has to do is buy a bookstore" as their heading argument.

Denzil:
Which effectively does them no good.

Jim Burrows:
The proper level of debate is why what we are proposing is too broad or too narrow.

jdp23:
RT @GetFISARight: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://is.gd/4N9YN #p2

HarryWaisbren:
RT @emptywheel: Now Sensenbrenner is giving Al Qaeda advice on how to use loopholes in #patriotact

normative:
Woo Nadler. "Terrorists can do things" is not the appropriate level at which to debate #patriotact

korkie:
Exactly Denzil!

ACLUNV:
i've tried. :-(

HarryWaisbren:
We're off to a good start with 4 retweets of our campaign to Lamar Smith. Let's keep them coming!

Head here: http://act.ly/Res to automatically retweet this:

@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

ACLUNV:
i think it's a function of my updated firefox...and i'm in the middle of a million different things, so i don't really have the time for a full re-boot

korkie:
DAMN! I forgot I have an appointment at two. Gotta run!!

jdp23:
ACLUNV, i'm also having problems with RealPlayer ... i've been following Marcy Wheeler's live-blogging at http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/patriots-and-state-secrets-live-blog/

ACLUNV:
Awesome. thx

BleuZ00m:
Thanks for being with us, Korkie! And thank you for your earlier petition link!

ymsp82:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

Courtney:
what does it mean to 'strike the last word'?

Jim Burrows:
What's with the "move to strike the last word" maneuver?

j_ro:
RT @GetFISARight: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res #p2

TheOdalisque:
RT @AdamSerwer: RT @normative: Woo Nadler. "Terrorists can do things" is not the appropriate level at which to debate #patriotact

Denzil:
I think I missed that part.

GetFISARight:
@CS_Network is there a good article describing the issues charities face under the #patriotact and Rep. Jackson Lee's amendment?

ACLU:
Rep. Nadler explains how library records will be protected unless you have some connection to terrorism. #patriotact #surveillance

Jim Burrows:
The Republicans keep trying to make a motion, which the Chairman is treating as out of order and only recognizing them for the purposes of debate, and not for the purpose of making a motion. The motion each time is to "strike the last word". I just don't know why that specific motion.

normative:
No idea how he's voting, but @jasoninthehouse is the first Republican at the #patriotact hearing who doesn't sound detached from reality

ColinCurtisKS:
RT @GetFISARight: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res #p2

kickfroggy:
#patriotact watch: Lamar Smith (R-TX)-"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data

GetFISARight:
RT @emptywheel: Republicans appear to be trying to force Obama Administration to take a formal position on #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Llive webcast:HJC #patriotact: Smith:AlQaeda can buy a US bookstore;Conyers:If you know AlQaeda bought a bookstore, you should report it!

LydiaMReynolds1:
RT @ACSLaw: RT @EFF: PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Potentially a good thing? RT @emptywheel: Republicans appear 2 be trying 2 force Obama Administration 2 take formal position on #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Nice---we have 10 tweets now in our first flash aciton campaign. Let's keep them coming:

@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

philosopher1967:
RT @ACLU: Rep. Nadler explains how library records will be protected unless you have some connection to terrorism. #patriotact #surveillance

kickfroggy:
RT @EFF #patriotact L. Smith (R-TX)-"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data

HarryWaisbren:
And if anyone has an idea for another campaign---throughout this markup or in general---please let us know!

BleuZ00m:
Great tweet, Janice!

jdp23:
RT @normative: No idea how he's voting, but @jasoninthehouse is the 1st Repub @ #patriotact hearing who doesn't sound detached from reality

JasonLeopold:
RT @ACLU: Rep. Nadler explains how library recrds wi/ B protected unless U have sum connex 2 terrorism. #patriotact #surveillance

BleuZ00m:
Yes! Conyers rocks "Who's protecting us from AG Ashcroft?!"

Jim Burrows:
Watt is really drawing the focus towards the Constitution.

Jim Burrows:
Ooo.... Let's smear Bob Barr with being connected to the evil ACLU.

skiquel:
RT @EFF PATRIOT bill mark-up in House Judic. Comm. about to start! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq, #patriotact

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: No idea how he's voting, but @jasoninthehouse is the 1st Repub @ #patriotact hearing who doesn't sound detached from reality

normative:
Melvin Watt misses Bob Barr-style Republicans on #patriotact. Me too.

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative: No idea how he's voting, but @jasoninthehouse is the 1st Repub @ #patriotact hearing who doesn't sound detached from reality

HarryWaisbren:
What is Smith thinking saying to just bring it to a vote?

HarryWaisbren:
@normative our country sure needs conservatives attached to reality on the #patriotact to have a louder voice in their party! #tlot

BleuZ00m:
About bringing it to a vote: Smith just wants to scuttle the discussion; typical neocon kneejerk. operative work: jerk

myrnatheminx:
RT @GetFISARight: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://bit.ly/4asxuH #p2

Jim Burrows:
Gallegly is at least making a reasoned argument and not CYA and finger pointing...

skiquel:
"If Attorney Gen. Ashcroft is protecting me from terrorists who's protecting me from Attorney General Ashcroft?" Rep Watt (D-NC) #patriotact

GetFISARight:
RT @emptywheel: Mel Watt used 2 ask himself, "if AG Ashcroft is protecting me from terrorists, who's protecting me from him?" #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
RT @myrantheminx: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res #p2 / thx Tracy

HarryWaisbren:
Reminder everone: Marcy is doing a great job liveblogging! http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/04/patriots-and-state-secrets-live-blog/

BleuZ00m:
Nadler: you don't ordinarily subpoena what someone is reading..

normative:
Nadler: Not enough to point out that an order goes through the court; question is what you have to SHOW the court. #patriotact

normative:
On planet Lamar Smith, limiting investigations to records of terrorists is a "protection for terrorists". #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Par of the source of this problem is that they have treated the Librarian's defense of the Constitution as needing to apply specifically to libraries rather than seeing it as an impassioned defense of the Constitution in general, wwhich was a good part of what they were doing.

Jim Burrows:
Thank you. I was trying to figure out how to make that "Planet Smith" remark.

BleuZ00m:
Loved Conyers smackback about 'AlQaeda buys a bookstore.' Sensenbrenner: what a maroon!

HarryWaisbren:
@emptywheel liveblog comment on @LamarSmithTX21: You *******, if u KNOW they're terrorsts, then you've reached Nadler's standard #patriotact

ericpfeiffer:
RT @normative: Melvin Watt misses Bob Barr-style Republicans on #patriotact. Me too. // GOPers who become principled after leaving office?

normative:
Good #patriotact omen: Gallegly amendment watering down heighteend 215 std for libraries shot down 21-14.

ACLU:
Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

Brons:
RT @normative: On planet Lamar Smith, limiting investigations to records of terrorists is a "protection for terrorists". #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative: Good #patriotact omen: Gallegly amendment watering down heighteend 215 std for libraries shot down 21-14.

Jim Burrows:
Sensenbrenner really seems totally enraptured with this "Us good. You Bad." and "Our administration.... your administration... neener neener" line.

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: Good #patriotact omen: Gallegly amendment watering down heighteend 215 std for libraries shot down 21-14.

eff:
#patriotact watch-R amendment to weaken library records protections beaten back in HJC, 13 to 21--a good start! Committee now in recess.

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative On planet Lamar Smith, limiting investigations to records of terrorists is a "protection for terrorists". #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Well that certainly was an instructive markup

HarryWaisbren:
so far of course

thespianduckie:
RT @ACLU: Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. #patriotact

Julian:
Do we know what time they're back?

Jim Burrows:
I disagreed with JasonInTheHouse and Gallegy, but at least they were talking about issues. The exchanges with Nadler were meaningful. Smith and Senssenbrenner... sheesh.

BleuZ00m:
Yes. To whose administration does Sensenbrenner refer? His allegiance to GWB and the Angler? Truly, what's in it for him? Ah, OpenSecrets/Maplight..

ACLUNV:
RT @normative: Good #patriotact omen: Gallegly amendment watering down heighteend 215 std for libraries shot down 21-14.

ACLU:
Duty calls. HJC breaks for a floor vote. #patriotact debate continues soon. This commercial break brought to you by the #Constitution!

Jim Burrows:
Julian. No idea when the voing on the floor will conclude.

TheDelibero:
RT @ACLU Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Help us expose @LamarSmithTX21's unAmerican views! Click through 4 act.ly campaign here: http://act.ly/Res @normative #patriotact #p2 #tlot

eff:
check out @normative's informative and entertaining commentary on this morning's #patriotact meeting in the House Judiciary Committee

HarryWaisbren:
Here is our current tweet again to send out for anyone who has not RT'd:

@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

SHUTTLECOCK74:
Duty calls. HJC breaks for a floor vote. #patriotact debate continues soon. This commercial break brought to you by the #Constitution!

Brons:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

Burke:
RT @normative On planet Lamar Smith, limiting investigations to records of terrorists is a "protection for terrorists". #patriotact

chrisreidpalmer:
#patriotact The base rate fallacy: let me show you it

rfkeddy:
RT @AdamSerwer @normative Lamar Smith (R-TX) suggests that adding civil liberties safeguards to #patriotact "expands terrorist rights"

Tosfm:
RT @ACLU Duty calls. HJC breaks 4 a floor vote. #patriotact debate continues soon. This commercial break brought 2 you by the #Constitution!

GetFISARight:
RT @ACLU Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

jessiebrewer:
Boo RT @ACLU Rep. Gallegy amendment 2 remove special protections 4 library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. Hooray 4r #privacy! #patriotact

theactualtodd:
RT @ACLU Call to order @ HJC #patriotact markup hearing: Watch Tweets http://twubs.com/patriotact & http://www.twazzup.com/?q=%...

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF #patriotact -R amendment 2 weaken library records protections beaten back in HJC, 13 to 21-a good start! Committee now in recess

Denzil:
Aww man, my connection went bad... I missed the last part.

GetFISARight:
@eff thx 4 citing @LamarSmithTX21 ridiculousness on #patriotact. RT campaign 2 expose his un-American views here: http://act.ly/Res

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF check out @normative's informative & entertaining commentary on this morning's #patriotact meeting in the House Judiciary Committee

HarryWaisbren:
RT @GetFISARight: @eff thx 4 citing @LamarSmithTX21 #patriotact ridiculousness. RT campaign 2 expose his unAmerican views: http://act.ly/Res

oitp:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch-R amendment to weaken library records protections beaten back in HJC, 13 to 21--a good start!

jdp23:
Denzil, they're on a recess right now. Before that, the Gallegy amendment to weaken library and bookstore protection failed. 13-21 (or maybe 14-21). Good news for us!

Jim Burrows (brons @ twit:
I really though that the dig at Barr "ACLU attorney Bob Barr" was very revealing of how much this is about team loyalty, uss vs them and cliques for the Republicans.

shanevanhulle:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch:Lamar Smith-"We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data!

Denzil:
Ah, that's good to hear!

jdp23:
Marcy Wheeler thinks the vote was straight party-line: R's for, D's against. Deborah Wasserman-Schultz and Adam Schiff, who she's been worried about, voted for civil liberties (at least this time).

b1g1nj4p4n:
RT @GetFISARight: RT @ACLU Gallegy amdt to remove spcl protections for library & bookstore records fails. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

Jim Burrows-Brons@twitter:
It was on party lines. I'm quite sure.

HarryWaisbren:
@normative GOP calls 4 Obama to speak about #patriotact hopefully could prevent him from hiding under their skirts as @emptywheel puts it

HarryWaisbren:
jdp23 good to see to Dems at least voting right this time!

Denzil:
How long is the recess scheduled for? I have to head to school fairly soon.

Brandon from ARL:
The library community is delighted about this last vote. We'll be thanking all the folks that voted to protect reader privacy. Shame on Smith for that bizarre "Al Qaeda bookstore" remark. At least he didn't say "Al Qaeda library."

jdp23:
yeah, congrats Brandon, that's great news!

jdp23:
Denzil, we're not sure how long it'll last ...

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon---let us know how you are thanking them for the library vote and we'll thank them as well.

Brandon from ARL:
Will do.

Brons:
RT @HarryWaisbren GOP calls 4 Obama to speak about #patriotact hopefully could prevent him from hiding under their skirts as @emptywheel put

HarryWaisbren:
Smith was pretty ridiculous today. We started a twitter campaign to expose his un-American views by tweeting the following to him:

@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

jdp23:
on one of the phone calls Julian made the point that librarians have gotten their voice heard the most effectively -- the Senate (to some extent) and now the House have supported them. There's clearly something the rest of us should be learning!

Jim Burrows-Brons@twitter:
Yes, Jon. They have done really well. I only wish that the react to them wasn't to just say that libraries and bookstores need protecting, but to say that all free speech needs it. It isn't their fault. It is the convenience-driven reaction to interpret them as narrowly as possible. We just have to push as well as they have.

GetFISARight:
@korkie @Brons @RadioFreeIran @TheGillShow @ymsp82 @j_ro @ColinCurtisKS @myrnatheminx thanks for the #patriotact RTs!

b1g1nj4p4n:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res

logonaut:
RT @ACLU: Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13-21. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res #p2

Jim Burrows-Brons@twitter:
By the way, despite what Marcy and the ACLU keep saying Gallegly's own site spells his name "gallegLy" with an L near the end.

ch3mi0n:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: Lamar Smith "We can't connect the dots unless we first collect the dots"-But those "dots" are *our* private data!

BleuZ00m:
#patriotact: Smith:AlQaeda can buy a US bookstore;Conyers:If you know AlQaeda bought a bookstore, you should report it! http://act.ly/Res

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks for all the RT's Amy

BleuZ00m:
Harry -- what's next?

BleuZ00m:
And something called #cowfilms is trending. What the...

jdp23:
good question about "what's next"

HarryWaisbren:
I agree. Perahps another twitter campaign, or re-promoting older ones?

We have 14 tweets calling out Smith which is a good start. Will be writing a blog post about his statements and such today later on.

gretared:
I like that @EFF is commentating the #patriotact bill live like it's a spectator sport. Great use of the medium to build suspense.

jdp23:
thinking out loud here ... seems like there are three scenarios at this point

HarryWaisbren:
all ears Jon

jdp23:
1) they don't manage to vote today. that's easy: more of the same. "see you next week!"

jdp23:
2) HR 3845 is reported out. then i think it's gearing up for the full house and senate battles

Denzil:
Sorry to interrupt but I have to head to school now. I can be back on in about an hour from now if you're all still here. Farewell! :)

jdp23:
3) HR 3845 is voted down. well, i guess it's still the house and senate battles, just from a less favorable perspective

jdp23:
thanks for joining us Denzil, talk to you soon!

BleuZ00m:
Hey Denzil! Thanks for joining us! You'll be back, I hope???

jdp23:
for #2 and #3 I think Chaffetz and Quigley have given us a great opportunity with their focus on how the Obama administration hasn't taken a stand

BleuZ00m:
Q for H and J: would love to thank Nadler, Conyers for their *feisty* comebacks!

jdp23:
does it make sense to have that be the focus of our open letter to Obama? "take a stand -- in accordance with your commitment to us"

Jim Burrows:
I follow and agree so far Jon.

BleuZ00m:
and by doing so, restate #patriotact in these RT?

HarryWaisbren:
I like adding that to the open letter Jon

jdp23:
excellent point Amy and that's very time-sensitive. so let's craft the tweet

AlexanderMadai:
Rep. Gallegy amendment to remove special protections for library & bookstore records fails 13 -21. Hooray for #privacy! #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Maybe including the Obama quote from John Conyers as well?: President Obama echoed Justice Brandies: "As a citizen, I know that we must never, ever, turn our back on [the Constitution's] enduring principles for expedience sake."

HarryWaisbren:
Agreed on thank you tweets as well

Jim Burrows:
The comebacks were not only feisty, but really dealt with issues.

BleuZ00m:
Marcy made a point though: where IS BO on this? Last night's votes show there's 'blood in the water;' we can't let them play that advantage?

Jim Burrows:
And yes, we should thank them for that.

jdp23:
nope they're not there. so we'll tweet them by name.

BleuZ00m:
That's a great quote, Harry!

jdp23:
and while we're at it we should also thank Quigley and Chaffetz for spotlighting the administration

HarryWaisbren:
how should we phrase a thank you tweet? And sadly, Nadler and Conyers aren't on twitter (or FB even it looks like), and Quigley only has a campaign twtiter account

Jim Burrows:
Yes, on Harry's quote for sure.

BleuZ00m:
I'll check with some allies in HCR and NYC pol circles; somebody has their twitter tags, don't you think?

HarryWaisbren:
marcy has been going after Obama hard on this---describing how Obama is hiding under Jeff Sessions' skirts

jdp23:
Amy, in terms of where BO is ... umm ... it's hard to be optimistic. he was great in the past; not so much as president

jdp23:
civil libertarians are very very disappointed in his actions.

HarryWaisbren:
I tweeted with her and Julian about htis a few times today, they think the Repbulcians calling out Obama have a backchannel to him

jdp23:
however, on other issues he has shown some willingness to change positions in response to pressure

BleuZ00m:
Like I said.. now, there's blood in the water. Steele was downright giggly this morning with glee. Makes me GAG!

Jim Burrows:
Jon, he's been a pragmatist, despite is ConLaw background all along. That's why there's a GFR. Just saying.

jdp23:
Jim I agree

jdp23:
still. the other option is to say "oh well" and give up.

HarryWaisbren:
It's the same old game---GOP gest to declare victory, Dems blame GOP, then use that as a ratationale for why the base need to work like dogs to elect more dems

Doesn't fly anymore thoguh with the majorities and whtie house...But they're still playign this game

BleuZ00m:
Jim, I hear you. (sigh) Love Marcy's line about "Jeff Session's skirts!"

jdp23:
great suggestion on including the Conyers quote in the open letter btw.

jdp23:
ok, for thank you tweets, how about ...

Jim Burrows:
I don't mean to. Ijust question the "He's been great in the past". I'm just a curmudgeonly old Independent, but he has always seemed to much of a hawk and too little of a civil libertarian for my taste.

jdp23:
fair enough. "he's been okay in the past, at least sometimes" is more accurate.

Julian:
re: Smith's madness, I wonder if we can't flip this BS about "investigating terrorists"... If they've got real evidence that a particular person is connected to a terror group, it's safe to assume investigators will immediately (and if history is a guide, very easily) obtain full-blown FISA warrants for electronic surveillance or physical search, which go far beyond what they can do with 215 orders or NSLs. And with a good deal less than "real evidence", of course, they could still get NSLs and 215 orders under the heightened standard...

gl33p:
Heh, dots. To Lamar Smith R-TX you're a dot. Collected by "security experts". Unpatriotic until proved patriotic? #patriotact

Julian:
So maybe we should be referring to these as "non-terrorist surveillance tools"

HarryWaisbren:
Rhetorically he has been great in the past especially. If he so chooses, he has the power to completely change htis nation's views on civil liberties if he'd give a passioante speech about it

Julian:
They're what you use when you're investigating people you DON'T know to be terrorists, because you've got other much more powerful tools to use when you DO know

jdp23:
Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, and Watt for standing up for the Consitution at today's #patriotact hearings! (Please RT)

Jim Burrows:
As to the blood in the water, I love how the Dem victory in the past at the hands of a Rep driven out as a RINO is being touted as a victory by the right. Me thinks that some of the blood in the water is well, red dye and ballon juice. The really mustn't be allowed to move us into their Twilight Zone.

BleuZ00m:
How about something simple? "Does Lamar Smith get to decide if "Pat the Bunny" is a terrorist book? He seems to think so..."

BORDC:
BORDC is following the House Judiciary Committee markup on #patriotact reauthorization today.

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks for your input Julian! There were a huge amount of tweets about Smith, and especially since he has a twitter account he should be front and center in our reactions

jdp23:
i like that Amy ... and Julian, very good point

HarryWaisbren:
And Jon, I'll set up that act.ly and get it out now

Jim Burrows:
Julian: Excellent points. I agree.

jdp23:
Harry, let's hear what others think about it. I am not very good at all at viral tweets!

BleuZ00m:
Jim, I hear you.. I'm just glancing at a new torrent of DickArmey-fed BS, from some opp intel allies...

jdp23:
and I'm not sure it needs to be via act.ly.

Jim Burrows:
Amy! That's great. Pat the Bunny, indeed.

jdp23:
Julian, this seems like a very promising direction.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon---do we want to write "today" in the tweet to them? It dates the petition, though we could edit it tomorrow or something.

Jim Burrows:
Oh. I hear you on the BS, Amy. Very much it's just that so much of it *is* BS and PR and well sort of a political ballooon to match the financial, real estate, and tec ballons. Way too little real content and that makes it that much more important to stop. It feeds on itself.

normative:
Lamar Smith has #patriotact backwards: NSLs and 215s mainly for people who AREN'T terrorists; for known terrorists, much stronger tools

Brandon from ARL:
I agree with Julian. It's the same point Nadler made. The question is not whether you can nab a terrorist in a bookstore. If you know he's a terrorist, you can nab him anywhere. The question is where and when you can gather info about people you have little or no reason to suspect - i.e. you and me.

jdp23:
Harry, a petition's too much overhead for this. Just tweet it from GFR

HarryWaisbren:
I was just going to do an RT campaign from act.ly

BleuZ00m:
Jon, so.. we should structure the followup tweets with both the act.ly and #patriot act? and spice it with Smith, Sensenbrenner jibes? Would that fly? And there must be a shorter #hash to ID Sensenbrenner. After all, a tweet's only 140 char..

HarryWaisbren:
already finished with it too, just need to send it out

Jim Burrows:
I like that normative tweet's wording. Leaves a little detail out, but, hey 140 chars.

HarryWaisbren:
I'm going to RT Julian's (@normative) tweet to Smith

BleuZ00m:
Someone sent me a 'tweetlong' that let's you feed more than 140 char? Not sure of it, though? Any experience with it? Or do we just go with short and sweet?

CS_Network:
@GetFISARight Yes,http://tiny.cc/Rhhee discusses how the #patriotact hurts charities and how it can be fixed.

religion_of_one:
@ACLU yeah, but what defines a connection to terrorism? #patriotact #surveillance

normative:
#patriotact NSLs issued on 7,225 Americans last year. Does anyone believe that even 1% were terrorists?

jdp23:
Amy, short and sweet is better. most people won't see two tweets.

HarryWaisbren:
ok just tweeted out the thank you from GFR

BleuZ00m:
Ok.. just a thought. Brevity nails it, you're right.

jdp23:
Harry, the act.ly URL (a) adds a bunch of characters and (b) rules out any other URL. so i tend to avoid it unless there's an important reason

Brons:
(RT) Lamar Smith has #patriotact backwards: NSLs and 215s mainly for people who AREN'T terrorists; for known terrorists, much stronger tools

GetFISARight:
Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

jdp23:
Julian, any suggestions on how people can shorten that tweet to include you?

_kbm:
RT @GetFISARight: @LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American! #patriotact http://act.ly/Res #p2

Jim Burrows:
Sadly the tweet was too long to RT and keep the "RT @normative" at the front.

BleuZ00m:
on my feed right now, like antimatter-matter:
FreedomWorks

In DC tonight? FreedomWorks will have pizza, literature, maps, etc. available. Come hang out with other patriots!5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

* Reply

Julian Sancheznormative

Lamar Smith has #PatriotAct backwards: NSLs and 215s mainly for people who AREN'T terrorists; for known terrorists, much stronger tools5 minutes ago from web

Brons:
RT @GetFISARight: Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

jdp23:
actually we should thank all the HJC Dems for their votes on GallegLy amendment too

Brons:
RT @gl33p: Heh, dots. To Lamar Smith R-TX you're a dot. Collected by "security experts". Unpatriotic until proved patriotic? #patriotact

jdp23:
so with Amy's suggestions, Julian's tweets, the thank you stuff, gl33p's excellent tweets ... we've got some great fodder

Julian:
I'm not that big a stickler for tweet attribution

jdp23:
Julian, it adds a lot of cred. You are the single biggest start of this battle so far.

BleuZ00m:
@maddow Thanks to Reps Conyers for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

Jim Burrows:
Yuh. I hated RTing you without your name, but my usual shortening tricks dot too far from your original, Julian.

jdp23:
Harry, does it make sense to put together a "greatest hits (so far)" post for the blog with a bunch of these?

BleuZ00m:
Like that tweet, Jim!

HarryWaisbren:
Greatest hits of the tweets and chat comments and such?

BleuZ00m:
@markos Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

BleuZ00m:
@wegoted Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings! @GETFISARIGHT

jdp23:
yeah of the tweets. as an alterantive to "tweeting points"

Jim Burrows:
Yes on greatest hits Jon.

Julian:
Well that's terrifying. Though speaking of FreedomWorks... I just remembered an old friend of mine is there now... can't believe I hadn't thought of it before.

HarryWaisbren:
Makes, sense, especially since we'll be putting out a lot more of them

jdp23:
then we can ask the GFR list and Facebook group for help.

jdp23:
Returning to Julian's point (and Nadler's as well), this seems like a very good thing to stress in the open letter.

HarryWaisbren:
Hmm, I don't know aobut asking them to tweet from too big of a list. Rather focus our energies---especially since we have a good start on the Smith act.ly

BleuZ00m:
@ Julian Forgive me here, but the first thing that came to mind --as you mentionned that a friend of yours is with FreedomWorks now -- is "Does his lobotomy scars still show?" :-p

jdp23:
Harry, i see the point about focusing energy. Not sure the Smith act.ly is the right one though.

jdp23:
do people have about 15 minutes or so to take a stab at editing the open letter? I can through it into a Google Doc to make it easier for us to collaborate ...

HarryWaisbren:
I have a little time now, but will have to run in a bit

BleuZ00m:
I just posted the following to my FB page:
"Just finished watching Live House Judiciary Committee hearings on the pending FISA - privacy rights - legislation. Lamar Smith's efforts continue to erode your rights. Conyers, Nadler brilliantly fought off Sensenbrenner's 'bogeyman' tactic. A proposed amendment to weaken protections for libraries and bookstores failed 13- 21. Do you value your privacy?" with the act.ly link..

HarryWaisbren:
In terms of tweets we want to be retweeted---something Smith focused might make sense as there were so many tweets already exposing his lies.

The current Smith act.ly is already ongoing, so I don't see why we wouldn't promote it further amognst the other tweets we're trying to send out.

jdp23:
Amy, it'll be interesting to see whether anybody follows this.

HarryWaisbren:
For a more concrete ask though, I think we focus people to our open letter once we do this editing session

BleuZ00m:
I have a 4PM EST to prep for. A collaborative Google doc works for me; send it to my 'bleuz00m@gmail.com' address, k? What's the time frame? I'm assuming later today, to keep it fresh?

jdp23:
Harry, agreed that we want to promote this, I just am not sure about having it be a primary focus.

HarryWaisbren:
that obviously is a much bigger deal than even a very successful act.ly campaign

HarryWaisbren:
Completely agree it's not a primary focus. I say we bring the onus back to the open letter given Conyers' citation of Obama and hte GOP calls for him to step in.

philosopher1967:
RT @GetFISARight: Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

Julian:
@BleuZ00m The people running that op are the furthest thing from stupid.

jdp23:
Amy, in terms of timeframe, ideally we'd get a draft out to the OFA and FB group tonight, incorporate feedback, and launch soon

eff:
EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Google doc fine for me. Add me as brons@eldacur.com

HarryWaisbren:
Julian---when taling about Freedoms Works, you have to remember Ari Fleischer's warning that we "must watch what we do. What we say"....

jdp23:
we launched our first letter without giving people time to review and there was [very justifiable] criticism

HarryWaisbren:
So let's make sure to give time to review then no doubt

BleuZ00m:
Jon, 'anybody follows this' question meaning... to whom I just tweeted the Thank you? Rachel, Ed and Markos do have minions monitoring their tweets and just based on past progressive/press efforts, I do get nods back, so it's not like theirs are just deadletter boxes..

normative:
EFF RT @EFF blog post on the House #patriotact mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s

jdp23:
Amy, yes I agree. We haven't gotten responses from Kos or Maddow before.

HarryWaisbren:
Take care Denzil, thanks for joining!

BleuZ00m:
Julian, oh, I do know that.. and very well funded too.

HarryWaisbren:
weird, message from a half hour or so ago just posted (denzil one above0

ACLUNV:
sorry i've been out of the loop, all. i had 27 things come up at once. ...the aclu has an action alert, too.

Julian:
aaaand they're back

shanevanhulle:
RT @EFF: EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact

Brons:
rt BleuZ00m: @maddow Thanks to Reps Conyers for standing up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings!

Jim Burrows:
Back!
Could someone twee the invite and url from the GFR account?

jdp23:
they're back? how dare they!

HarryWaisbren:
Anyone else not getting audio?

Jim Burrows:
Make taht "could someoneone tweet the ..."

Jim Burrows:
I have audio.

HarryWaisbren:
yeah, thanks to Denzil (and anyone else for that matter) what have participated or read along!

jdp23:
Jim I just sent you the GFR password

jdp23:
(on Facebook that is)

HarryWaisbren:
ACLUNV---we RT'd the ACLU link a lot earlier, it's on the "acitons to take" panel in the action hub :)

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact

ACLUNV:
awesome. thanks

GetFISARight:
#patriotact markup starting up again! http://is.gd/4N7re please join us in the chat room at http://is.gd/4N3fv

ACLUNV:
@EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact

eff:
House Judiciary Committee reconvening *now* to debate #patriotact reform bill, watch the webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

GetFISARight:
RT @EFF: EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://is.gd/4NfLd #patriotact

ACLU:
And we're back ... Quorum roll call & HJC #patriotact hearing is called to order. #freedom #privacy #surveillance Live: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

jasimmonsv:
RT @EFF House Judiciary Committee reconvening *now* to debate #patriotact reform bill, watch the webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

msnbcwatcher:
RT @normative #patriotact NSLs issued on 7,225 Americans last year. Does anyone believe that even 1% were terrorists? #p2

ACLUNV:
:-) thanks

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact #p2

clarinette01:
ACLU: back ... Quorum roll call & HJC #patriotact hearing is called to order. #freedom #privacy #surveillance Live: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

GetFISARight:
RT @emptywheel: PATRIOT is back. Dan Lungren is trying to gut NSL minimization. So that the Admin can use it for data mining. #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Quiggly seems to think that an FBI agent in charge is the equivalent of the judge required to issue a subpoena.

Jim Burrows:
Um, lundgren. My bad.

BleuZ00m:
@TheYoungTurks Hey Cenk! Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for stood up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings! @GETFISARIGHT

normative:
Perhaps Dan Lungren should make his argument to the Office of the Inspector General, which urged NSL minimization rules #patriotact

msnbcwatcher:
I doubt the MSM is spending any time today covering the #patriotact markup today so I'm RT those who are #p2

HarryWaisbren:
RT @BleuZ00m: @TheYoungTurks Hey Cenk! Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for stood up for the Constitution at today's #patriotact hearings

Jim Burrows:
Confused by the angle on the name plate.

ACLUNV:
@normative #patriotact NSLs issued on 7,225 Americans last year. How many were from #NV ??

Jim Burrows:
Again, a good content-based discussion between Conyers and Lungren. Conyers is making excellent responses. I agree with him and disagree with Lungren, but at least he is actually talking issues.

normative:
Lungrent ignorant that DOJ has been working on minimization for NSLs for 2 years; guess they don't find it contextually inapt. #patriotact

normative:
Wow. Lungren totally clueless; has he even read executive summaries of the OIG NSL reports? #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
here comes Smith. This will be awesome I bet

Chrys_Naples_FL:
HJC #patriotact hearing live at http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

Jim Burrows:
Should anyone care fo the reference to the OIG on NSLs, there is this one: http://www.justice.gov/oig/testimony/t0909.pdf

normative:
WHAT? Smith objects to NSL min "in the absence of any demonstrated and recent abuse"... last OIG report on this found plenty. #patriotact

jdp23:

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks Jon!

Oryctolagus:
RT: @normative: #patriotact NSLs issued on 7,225 Americans last year. Does anyone believe that even 1% were terrorists?

Jim Burrows:
In answer to Smith's summary of the FBI's position, the OIG says "However, there was disagreement between the Department and the FBI regarding the definitions and scope of minimization procedures in general,"

Jim Burrows:
Cherry picking is a wonderful thing.

normative:
Aren't reps ashamed to be offering #patriotact amendments on issues where they're so manifestly ignorant of the basic facts?

Jim Burrows:
"Ignorant of the facts", Julian? But you dont understand. Thehis is a matter of principle. The principle of "Us vs Them". If it comes from theother side of the aisle it is obviousl bad.

jdp23:
live-blogging the #patriotact hearings , continued: http://is.gd/4NgGb (via @emptywheel) #p2

Jim Burrows:
Chaffetz is doing a really nice job of illegitimizing the motives of his oponents. Sheesh.

Julian:
He's also wrong that this returns it to the pre-Patriot standard

Jim Burrows:
Absolutely. And he paints this as the (questionably motivated) action of the administration, who have been notably absent from the issue.

BleuZ00m:
Jon, do I need a pw for the collaborative doc?

Jim Burrows:
CU, Amy

HarryWaisbren:
RT @jdp23: live-blogging the #patriotact hearings , continued: http://is.gd/4NgGb (via @emptywheel) #p2

GetFISARight:
RT @jdp23: live-blogging the #patriotact hearings , continued: http://is.gd/4NgGb (via @emptywheel) #p2

jdp23:
Amy: no

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Jon. back in a bit.

HarryWaisbren:
See you later Amy

eff:
#patriotact good news-amendment to gut new "minimization" privacy protections for National Security Letters fails 8-18 in House Judic. Comm.

Jim Burrows:
Ah, "At laeast a court has to be involved". Thank you, Nadler. Aagin, "explain yourself or be supervised by the court".

Julian:
I'll wager juuust about anything Chaffetz is being used to launder this a-la Sessions

ACSLaw:
RT @GetFISARight: RT @jdp23: live-blogging the #patriotact hearings , continued: http://is.gd/4NgGb (via @emptywheel) #p2

grantmichaels:
#patriotact good news-amendment to gut new "minimization" privacy protections for Nat Sec Letters fails 8-18 in House Judic. Comm (via @eff)

Brandon at ARL:
Julian's right. The original bill would have returned to pre-patriot, but the Manager's Amendment waters that down to the three-part standard in Feingold.

Brandon at ARL:
Shorter Issa: Won't this bill prevent us from spying on people when our only basis is generalized fear?

HarryWaisbren:
It's getting a little heated...

volt4ire:
RT @EFF: #patriotact good news! amendment to gut "minimization" privacy protections for National Security Letters fails 8-18 in Judic. Comm.

Denzil:
I'm back. :)

Jim Burrows:
Good! Actual instances of abuses. Facts! who'd have thunk it?

ACLUNV:
#patriotact good news-amendment to gut new "minimization" #privacy protections for Nat Sec Letters fails 8-18 in House Judic. Comm @eff

ACLU:
HJC rejects amendment that would strip new procedures protecting #NationalSecurityLetter info. #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
I wish the most local member, Delahunt, was there. I no longer live in his district, but I believe I will write him.

kevin bankston:
my video stream is glitching, if anyone hears the final vote please chat it thanks!

Jim Burrows:
"Not withstanding the abuse of the microphone"! I love it.

Jim Burrows:
Kevin, the Rep amendment just failed on party lines. The Manager's amendment is being voted on. So far again party lines.

eff:
#patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

CitizenCassidy:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

Jim Burrows:
The mgr's amendment passes 19-11.

Brons:
RT #patriotact @emptywheel: These Democrats on HJC look remarkably like Democrats. Thanks to all of them for defending civil liberties.

judithromero:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

oitp:
Watching @eff for today's #patriotact updates!

Jim Burrows:
Now we get a Dem beginning to water down the amendment. Sigh.

Brandon at ARL:
Not necessarily.

Jim Burrows:
Really?

Brandon at ARL:
"Spec & artic facts" is not much, really. But removing the presumption is great.

Jim Burrows:
What am I missing?

normative:
DOJ approach to #patriotact really is incredibly shady: refusing to take public stance while feeding their amendments to reps

Jim Burrows:
OK. I guess I see that. I'm not sure that I'm entirely convinced. I do get it. Opposition by Smith speaks wonders for it. :-)

korkie:
Hi .... can't believe they are still at it!

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: DOJ approach to #patriotact really is incredibly shady: refusing to take public stance while feeding their amendments to reps

Brons:
RT @normative: DOJ approach to #patriotact really is incredibly shady: refusing to take public stance while feeding their amendments to reps

0rw3ll:
RT: @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

korkie:
RT @normative: DOJ approach to #patriotact really is incredibly shady: refusing to take public stance while feeding their amendments to reps

miss_eli:
RT @oitp Watching @eff for today's #patriotact updates! [some good news!]

korkie:
rt @ACLUNV #patriotact good news-amendment to gut new "minimization" #privacy protections for Nat Sec Letters fails (cont) http://tl.gd/rb9s

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

Hegemommy:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

normative:
Actually, contra Lungren, 9/11 commission found we DID have "the dots" before #patriotact, but failed to connect them.

kevin bankston:
I'm confused--they're arguing over whether there should be specific and articulable facts standard for 215 orders but AFAIK the bill/managers amendment doesn't require S&A facts except for library records. So are they only arguing about library records or am I missing something?

normative:
When did the default become "give unlimited power, think about imposing safeguards only after you discover abuses"? #patriotact

Chrys_Naples_FL:
http://tinyurl.com/yk6pnmj Italy convicts 22 #CIA agents in absentia for kidnapping a Muslim cleric in 2003. #rendition #patriotact

korkie:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news: another bad amendment to weaken National Security Letter reform fails in House Judic. Comm, 18-11.

Jim Burrows:
Fairly clearly they believe that the mgr's amendment is requiring specific annd articulable facts under 215.

Jim Burrows:
I haven't looked at it since the day it was announced, so that's too fine a detail to trust my memory.

korkie:
rt @normative Actually, contra Lungren, 9/11 commission found we DID have "the dots" before #patriotact, but failed to connect them.

normative:
Echoing Feingold, Schiff suggests there have been #patriotact S.215 abuses that can't be publicly discussed

Brandon at ARL:
The bill has S&A for all 215s and the mgr's amendment is silent on the issue. See Sec 103 a.

Jim Burrows:
Ah, here... Not the actual bill, but the press release...

Section 215 Orders
• Improves the standard for issuing a Section 215 order by requiring specific and articulable facts to show that the tangible things sought are relevant to an authorized investigation, other than a threat assessment.

Jim Burrows:
Do you have a pointer to the text of H.R. 3845?

Brandon at ARL:
Section 103 (a) of HR 3845

Julian:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3845

Jim Burrows:
Yes. There it is "statement of specific and articulable facts" in 103.a.1.B.

gl33p:
When did default become "give unlimited power, think about imposing safeguards only after you discover abuses"? #patriotact via @normative

Jim Burrows:

Jim Burrows:
I mis-spoke/typed above. I meant to say just "Fairly clearly they believe that the amendment" and inserted "mgr's" in haste. My bad.

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF #patriotact good news-amendment to gut "minimization" privacy protections for National Security Letters fails 8-18 in Judic. Comm

Jim Burrows:
I'd rather have facts AND the removal of presumption, but I can grudgingly accept the reversal on the presumption if needs be.

korkie:
RT @EFF #patriotact good news-amendment to gut "minimization" privacy protections for National Security Letters fails 8-18 in Judic. Comm

korkie:
Have a good night folks ......

Denzil:
Good night!

Jim Burrows:
U 2

Jim Burrows:
Harry. I need to get to a project I've had on hold all day. You need anything more from me?

Julian:
Assuming this classified 215 program is some kind of data mining, ceding the presumption is an easy sop to throw; it wouldn't have been helping much anyway. Whereas "specific and articulable" might throw a wrench absent a tighter nexus with the "activities" prong

eff:
#patriotact House Judiciary Committee recesses w/o final vote on PATRIOT bill, reconvening tomorrow 10 AM Eastern--see you tomorrow!

jdp23:
thanks all for being here ... tune in tomorrow!

Jim Burrows:
Right. I far prefer the requirement for specific and articulable facts and not just showing relevence.

Jim Burrows:
I will be here, Jon.

jdp23:
tahnks Jim, and thanks for all your help today!

GetFISARight:
RT @ eff: #patriotact House Judiciary Committee recesses w/o final vote on PATRIOT bill, reconvening tomorrow 10 AM Eastern

ch3mi0n:
RT @EFF: EFF blog post on the House PATRIOT mark-up http://eff.org/r.b8s #patriotact

Brons:
RT @eff: #patriotact House Judiciary Committee recesses w/o final vote on PATRIOT bill, reconvening tomorrow 10 AM Eastern-see you tomorrow!

Jim Burrows:
I'm glad to see they didn't manage to pull the last minute secret briefing, water it all way down stunt this time.

Hegemommy:
RT @GetFISARight: #patriotact House Judiciary Committee recesses w/o final vote on PATRIOT bill, reconvening tomorrow 10 AM Eastern

Markup Day 2 log

Hwaisbren — Fri, 06 Nov 2009 13:19:03 CST

HJC Patriot Markup home page

HarryWaisbren:
Good mroning! Welcome back to day 2 of the HJC Patriot Amednments markup tweetchat.

GetFISARight:
Day 2 of the HJC #patriotact markup begins at 11:00 am EST. Join us 4 another tweetchat: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

HarryWaisbren:
Note that the time was rescheduled---changed from 10 to 11

GetFISARight:
Please provide any input you have on our new open letter to President Obama on the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb

normative:
Girding loins for #patriotact Markup 2: The Markuppening.

Jim Burrows:
Hello, folks.

HarryWaisbren:
Morning Jim!

Jim Burrows:
So, it looks like we start at 11:00, not 10:00 as originally planned.

GetFISARight:
Check our out latest suggested #patriotact tweets: http://bit.ly/3NEHw3

HarryWaisbren:
Yeah, the time change was confirmed by Kevin

HarryWaisbren:
We're starting to discuss day 2 of the #patriotact markup (begins at 11:00 am EST) in the tweetchat: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE #p2 #tlot #privacy

HarryWaisbren:
RT @GetFISARight: Check our out latest suggested #patriotact tweets: http://bit.ly/3NEHw3

eff:
Second day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11 AM EST this morning, pre-show post at http://eff.org/r.b8z

1timstreet:
RT @EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee at 11 AM EST this morning, pre-show post at http://eff.org/r.b8z

norwind:
RT @EFF: Second day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11 AM EST this morning, pre (cont) http://tl.gd/ri3s

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: Second day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11 AM EST this morning, pre (cont) http://tl.gd/ri5i

[Comment From jdp23jdp23: ]
hi all, just sticking my head in briefly -- i've got an all-day event today and am not sure what the wireless situation is, so don't expect to see me much

Jaykul:
RT @EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11AM this morning, pre-show post at http://eff.org/r.b8z

GetFISARight:
RT @EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11AM this morning, pre-show post at http://is.gd/4NXEv

normative:
RT @EFF: 2nd day of #patriotact debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11 AM EST, pre-show post at http://eff.org/r.b8z

[Comment From Kevin BankstonKevin Bankston: ]
good morning from the drowsy west coast

HarryWaisbren:
Good morning to you too Kevin!

[Comment From JulianJulian: ]
Cheers.

[Comment From JeffKJeffK: ]
Good morning everyone. I'm a bit late to the current markup issues. Can someone tell me where repeal of retroactive immunity stands? is it in either chamber's bill?

ninob:
RT @EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11AM this morning, pre-show post at http://eff.org/r.b8z

korkie:
RT @EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 11AM this morning, pre-show post at http://is.gd/4NXEv

HarryWaisbren:
Jeff K----here's a good primer on the two bills from the EFF

[Comment From korkiekorkie: ]
good day!

HarryWaisbren:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/10/breaking-news-house-representatives-enters-patriot

[Comment From jdp23jdp23: ]
it's pretty early out here!

JeffK:
Thanks, Harry.

korkie:
Is the webcast still at same link?

jdp23:
great wrapup post yesterday, kevin!

HarryWaisbren:
Switched hte webcast link, so it should be right

Julian:
It's been broken out--as a standalone in SJC, and as part of a broader FISA Amendments reform in HJC

Kevin Bankston:
Thanks, Jon

Kevin Bankston:
re: immunity, it's also in Holt's new bill in the House

BleuZ00m:
Good morning,friends!

HarryWaisbren:
Julian and Kevin----while we have both of you here, I thought I'd ask how either of you two would feel about doing a Q & A in a tweetchat (similar to this set up) some time?

Could be a good way to keep people engaged and informed in between hearings. Thoughts?

HarryWaisbren:
And everyone----here is a doodle poll asking for preferred times for our next organizing call: http://doodle.com/83x5u7f4v3zy4rcb

Please let us know when is best for you!

http://doodle.com/83x5u7f4v3zy4rcb

[Comment From Brandon at ARLBrandon at ARL: ]
Good morning everyone. Here's hoping for another good day in Committee.

Kevin Bankston:
Hi Harry--I'm open to the idea, let's discuss when the fireworks are over

HarryWaisbren:
Glad to hear Kevin, and sounds like a plan.

BORDC:
From our blog: House Judiciary Committee considers USA PATRIOT Amendments Act http://bit.ly/3nIQnd #patriotact

Julian:
Sure, I'm game

[Comment From ACLUNVACLUNV: ]
I like when meetings get pushed back after a long night out.... :-)

Julian:
And not to jump the gun, but is anything scheduled on the Reyes bill yet?

Kevin Bankston:
not as far as I know

ACLU:
Keep following @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. We'll be gearing up w/ continued HJC #patriotact mark up in just a bit.

ACLUNV:
@EFF 2nd day of #patriotact reform debate in House Judiciary Committee begins at 8AM this morning, pre-show post at http://is.gd/4NXEv

GetFISARight:
Time for the HJC #patriotact markup to begin! Follow & discuss it in the tweetchat in our action hub: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

Jim Burrows:
I have video and audio. Everyone else?

HarryWaisbren:
Good morning to you too Amy (just saw your welcome)!

ACSLaw:
RT @ACLU: Follow @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. | Follow @ACLU for #patriotact hearing coverage.

BleuZ00m:
Hi there Harry! Thanks. Waiting for vid buffer up..

ahulse:
RT @ACLU: Keep following @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. Gearing up w/ continued HJC #patriotact mark up shortly.

GetFISARight:
Let us know your preferred times 4 Tuesday's #patriotact organizing call: http://bit.ly/3X7rX

Kevin Bankston:
Yep, have audio and video. they're still quorum calling; people are slowly filtering in.

korkie:
Getting knock off too often today.

Kevin Bankston:
me too :-(

Jim Burrows:
Lots of straggling going on.

ACLUNV:
RT @ACLU: Follow @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. | Follow @ACLU for #patriotact hearing coverage.

Julian:
I blame NSA

Kevin Bankston:
don't you always ;-)

Jim Burrows:
Not a bad default guilty party. :-)

Kevin Bankston:
oh, Julian, loved your "part 2: the markuppening", though I prefer "part 2: electronic surveillance boogaloo" (after "breakin' 2: electric boogaloo")

BleuZ00m:
RT @BORDC House Judiciary Committee considers USA #patriotact Amendments http://bit.ly/3nIQnd @GETFISARIGHT Thanks Shahid!

Brandon at ARL:
If only we could stop the PATRIOT Act by standing in front of a bulldozer. (Breakin' 2 reference redux)

eff:
#patriotact watch: quorum's been called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic. Comm. starting NOW! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

HarryWaisbren:
On the NSA---I blame them especially for spying on our soldier's most...intimate calls: http://boingboing.net/2008/10/09/nsa-enjoys-eavesdrop.html

Shows how a lack fo civil liberties protections can prevent "supporting the troops" in any sense of the word.

npadvocacy:
RT @ACLU: Follow @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. | Follow @ACLU for #patriotact hearing coverage.

Jim Burrows:
Smith is being far more reasonable today. The argument for lone wolf is plausible. We certainly have had lone wolf domestic terrorists. He raises the issue very sensibly, regardless of whether you buy it or not.

korkie:
rt @npadvocacy RT @ACLU: Follow @ACLULGBT for live coverage of Senate #ENDA hearing. | Follow @ACLU for #patriotact hearing coverage.

CitizenCassidy:
RT @npadvocacy RT @ACSLaw RT @ACLU Follow @ACLULGBT 4 live tweets of Senate #ENDA hearing. | Follow @ACLU 4 #patriotact hearing tweets.

huertanix:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: quorum called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic.Comm starting NOW! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

Jim Burrows:
Of course if they are truly loan, who are they talking to and plotting with when you tap them?

Jim Burrows:
"truly lone". Sheesh. Cannot type sensibly.

korkie:
rt @huertanix RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: quorum called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic.Comm startin (cont) http://tl.gd/rigs

normative:
Smith explains differences bet #patriotact FISA & criminal wiretaps, incidentally shows speciousness of equating 2 types of roving taps

Brandon at ARL:
And if the whole point of having special powers w/r/t terrorists is that they are "agents of foreign powers" who can, e.g., buy nukes from N. Korea, hard to see how these powers are justified w/r/t loners.

HarryWaisbren:
For anyone interested, here are our latest suggested tweets:

http://getfisaright.wordpress.com/2009/11/05/markup-suggested-tweets/

Let us know if you have any other ideas----these suggestions must conintue to change with events/messaging strategy, and we're constantly updating them.

Brandon at ARL:
"Lone Wolf McQuade" is the greatest Chuck Norris film of all time, fwiw.

korkie:
rt @normative Smith explains differences bet #patriotact FISA & criminal wiretaps, incidentally shows speciousness (cont) http://tl.gd/rihg

korkie:
rt @normative Smith explains differences bet #patriotact FISA & criminal wiretaps, incidentally shows speciousness (cont) http://tl.gd/rihi

Julian:
Exactly. No reason Smith's argument wouldn't hold for domestic murderers.

ACLU:
HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #freedom #privacy #surveillance #nsl #fbi

HarryWaisbren:
As always, thanks for the RT's Korkie!

korkie:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact

korkie:
Come help us craft our open letter to President Obama about the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb

korkie:
Thanks to Reps Conyers, Nadler, & Watt for standing up for the Constitution at today’s #patriotact hearings!

korkie:
@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #patriotact reform, please also sponsor H 3846! (Please RT) http://act.ly/R1a

GetFISARight:
RT @normative Lamar Smith introducing #patriotact amendment to renew "lone wolf". Here's why not to: http://tr.im/lonewolf

Jim Burrows:
Though he has no great rhetorical style, Conyers is doing a fine job in countering Smith's arguments. This is the way that the debate should have gone yesterday.

korkie:
rt @ACLU HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #freedom #privacy #surveillance #nsl #fbi

korkie:
rt @GetFISARight RT @normative Lamar Smith introducing #patriotact amendment to renew "lone wolf". Here's why not to: http://tr.im/lonewolf

Julian:
OK, procedure geeks: What's this "strike the last word" business?

Kevin Bankston:
confusing--chaffetz sitting at poe's seat

normative:
Might be helpful to use #patriotact FISA tap against "lone wolves"... or murderers, drug dealers, burglars. But w/o foreign pwr, we don't

Jim Burrows:
Yes, please. What was the "strike the last word" manuever.

Kevin Bankston:
it means strike the chairman's saying "ok we're done let's vote"

Kevin Bankston:
it's a part of asking more time when the chair is trying to close the debate

Brandon at ARL:
Re: "strike the last word" -- http://www.c-span.org/questions/week104.asp

BleuZ00m:
Watch/live chat House Judiciary: USA #patriotact mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House NOW! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

InfoSec:
#Google dashboard: shows for each service data they have about you - better but... http://bit.ly/1bAqaF #privacy quo vadis

jessiebrewer:
RT @ACLU HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #freedom #privacy #surveillance #nsl #fbi

ACLU:
Chairman Conyers asserts irrelevance of the never-used "lone wolf" provision, saying criminal warrants suffice #patriotact

ComMetrics:
RT @InfoSec: #Google dashboard: shows for each service data they have about you - better but... http://bit.ly/1bAqaF #privacy quo vadis

korkie:
Thanks Brandon

Kevin Bankston:
ooh, that's helpful brandon--looks like I was wrong. I guess you shouldn't trust a San Franciscan with inside the beltway procedural questions ;-)

normative:
All these arguments for preferring #patriotact FISA surveillance only make sense in context of foreign terror network.

korkie:
RT @ACLU HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #freedom #privacy #surveillance #nsl #fbi

ACLUNV:
rt @ACLU HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. #Nevada should watch live online as #news breaks: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

odonnell:
Know what Google knows about you with Google Dashboard. http://bit.ly/49lfVJ #privacy #google

Julian:
Will someone explain what they think you're going to do with a lone wolf OTHER than bring him to criminal trial? Gather intelligence on the group he doesn't belong to?

Kevin Bankston:
exactly

lostkiara:
.RT @ACLU: Chairman Conyers asserts irrelevance of the never-used "lone wolf" provision, saying criminal warrants suffice #patriotact

kurt_jw:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: quorum's been called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic. Comm. starting NOW!http://eff.org/r.5bq

Jim Burrows:
Excellently put, Julian.

Kevin Bankston:
tweet that so I can retweet it, Julian ;-)

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: quorum's been called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic. Comm. starting NOW (cont) http://tl.gd/rija

korkie:
me too .....;)

Brandon at ARL:
Excellent, excellent point, very well put Julian.

Kevin Bankston:
I've been asked to keep the PATRIOT tweeting to about 2 or 3 an hour (for those of our followers who aren't insanely interested), so I can't bust out with the bon mots and have to mostly stick to the vote results

normative:
What would you do with Lone Wolf intercepts OTHER than criminal prosecution? Gather info on the group he doesn't belong to? #patriotact

ACSLaw:
RT @philosopher1967 RT @EFF #patriotact watch: quorum's been called, mark-up of reform bill in House Jud. Comm. NOW http://tl.gd/rija

HarryWaisbren:
Yeah, would love to retweet that from our accounts Julian!

ACLU_NorCal:
Right NOW: follow @ACLU for a live #patriotact hearing updates or follow @ACLULGBT for live #ENDA hearing updates.

normative:
Apparently Lamar Smith doesn't believe we can do Title III wiretaps on ppl speaking other languages. #patriotact

eff:
#patriotact watch: Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment to preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Conyers explains why its unconstitutional

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: What would u do w Lone Wolf intercepts OTHER than criminal prosecution? Gather info on group he doesnt belong to? #patriotact

Julian:
OH my god. Sensenbrenner cannot really be this stupid.

Brandon at ARL:
Oh but he can. :)

Jim Burrows:
Og, gawd. Do people like Smith and Sensenbrenner really believe that merely having a lwa on the books deters a terrorist? Becasue they are known to be law-abiding or some such?

HarryWaisbren:
Julian...at this point...we just can't doubt how stupid he can get.

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative: What would u do w Lone Wolf intercepts OTHER than criminal prosecution? Gather info on group he doesnt belong to? #patriotact

ACLU_NorCal:
Right NOW: follow @ACLU for live updates on the #patriotact hearing or follow @ACLULGBT for live #ENDA hearing updates.

thedrawingfarm:
i guess it's a good start... #google has a long way to go when it comes to tackling #privacy concerns though http://bit.ly/1f394G

korkie:
rt @normative Apparently Lamar Smith doesn't believe we can do Title III wiretaps on ppl speaking other languages. #patriotact

korkie:
bbl

ACLU_NorCal:
RT @ACLU: Chairman Conyers asserts irrelevance of the never-used "lone wolf" provision, saying criminal warrants suffice #patriotact

b3nw:
ever wonder what data google has on you? see their new privacy dashboard http://bit.ly/MhXrF #google #privacy

Brons:
RT @normative: What would u do w Lone Wolf intercepts OTHER than criminal prosecution? Gather info on group he doesnt belong to? #patriotact

Brandon at ARL:
Nice backhanded compliment to Sensenbrenner from Conyers: "I'm proud that you and I never passed Lone Wolf in any of our bills."

normative:
I'll use small words for Sensenbrenner: Lax FISA standards pass 4th Amdt only w/ foreign power nexus. Otherwise Keith controls. #patriotact

eff:
#patriotact RT@normative: What would u do w/Lone Wolf intercepts OTHER than criminal prosecution? Gather info on group he doesn't belong to?

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment to preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Cony (cont) http://tl.gd/ril7

BleuZ00m:
Watch LIVE: #patriotact HJC http://eff.org/r.5bq Sensenbrenner muddies definition of lone wolf provision; Conyers zings rebut. 4th Amndt??

Jim Burrows:
Not so many Dems present today.

RiversideCoC4L:
RT @ACLU: HJC #patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #c4l #yal #tcot #fed #liberty #tlot

HarryWaisbren:
RT @eff #patriotact watch: Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment 2 preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Conyers explains why its unconstitutional

GetFISARight:
RT @eff #patriotact watch: Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment 2 preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Conyers explains why its unconstitutional

normative:
Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass.

MS0M303:
#privacy - Google Dashboard: Now You Know What Google Knows About You http://ow.ly/zAaV

PrivacyCampDC:
#privacy - Google Dashboard: Now You Know What Google Knows About You http://ow.ly/zAaW

Kevin Bankston:
15 to 15?

Jim Burrows:
15/15? Interesting. Were there Dems as "aye"? or just more Rep's present? I didn't notice any cross-over votes.

Brandon at ARL:
Schiff and Quigley voted aye.

Jim Burrows:
Thank you.

Brandon at ARL:
Schiff's on HPSCI and is generally hawkish. Not sure what Quigley's deal is. He's a freshman.

ACSLaw:
RT @AdamSerwer: RT @normative: Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass.

CitizenCassidy:
RT @AdamSerwer: RT @normative: Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass.

cyn3matic:
RT @AdamSerwer RT @normative: Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass. #p2 #tlot

BleuZ00m:
Who of us has an HJC member 'scorescard' here? Kevin? Korkie? Wishing I could fling an app on-screen to facilitate that for all of us.

eff:
#patriotact watch: A wobbly start--amndmnt by Smith(R-TX) to preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap power barely beaten back, 15-15.

ACLU:
HJC #patriotact hearing just took break for floor votes. Will be back live in a bit on stream: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

drewt333:
RT @EFF #patriotact quorum's been called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic. Comm. starting NOW! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: wobbly start--amndmnt by Smith 2 preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap power barely beaten back, 15-15.

lucent2cents:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: quorum's been called, mark-up of PATRIOT reform bill in House Judic. Comm. NOW! Webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

JeffK:
Until last January, I was Adam Schiff's constituent. I spoke with him personally about FISA before the amendment and we corresponded on it as well. (He actually called me directly after his aye vote on the FISA amendment to acknowledge how "difficult" the issues were.) I moved out of his district, but I want to press him more. A scorecard would definitely help, as he's unpredictable until the votes actually come down.

GetFISARight:
RT @ACLU: HJC #patriotact hearing just took break for floor votes. Will be back live in a bit on stream: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

HarryWaisbren:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: wobbly start--amndmnt by Smith 2 preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap power barely beaten back, 15-15.

erelyes:
@EFF is live tweeting #patriotact debates in congress

HarryWaisbren:
RT @ACLU: HJC #patriotact hearing just took break for floor votes. Will be back live in a bit on stream: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O

eff:
#patriotact watch: Comm. recess for floor vote. Spanks to @RepAdamSchiff and @Quigleycampaign, Ds who voted aye on failed "lone wolf" amdmt

gotprivacy:
Very Cool! RT @darshandodia: Special search engine for cyber crimes http://bit.ly/13OyP7 #security #privacy

ACLUNV:
@eff: #patriotact - wobbly start-amndmnt by Smith 2 preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap barely beaten back, 15-15. @PrivacyProf

HarryWaisbren:
RT @eff #patriotact watch: Comm. recess 4 floor vote. Spanks 2 @RepAdamSchiff & @Quigleycampaign, Ds who voted aye on failed lone wolf amdmt

GetFISARight:
RT @eff #patriotact watch: Comm. recess 4 floor vote. Spanks 2 @RepAdamSchiff & @Quigleycampaign, Ds who voted aye on failed lone wolf amdmt

HarryWaisbren:
For anyone looking to tweet or FB message a member of the HJC here is our listing of available social media accounts: http://get-fisa-right.wetpaint.com/page/House+Judiciary+Committee+Social+Media+Accounts

HarryWaisbren:
Democratic members of the HJC accounts I mean.

Kevin Bankston:
Is there any way to stop the feed of non-pertinent #privacy tweets?

HarryWaisbren:
Hmm, right now we're getting anything sent to #patriotact. I'll see what I can do.

Brandon at ARL:
Schiff does seem very thoughtful, and his staff were very reasonable when we met on this issue. I thought Schiff's amendment yesterday was a net positive for civil liberties. But he gets the scary classified briefings, which can turn some folks around.

Julian:
It looks like we're also getting #privacy

Kevin Bankston:
I don't think #patriotact is the issue, see e.g. 8:45 @gotprivacy tweet, which doesn't contain it but does contain #privacy

HarryWaisbren:
I just found that out as well, Julian. Turned them off.

Kevin Bankston:
awesome, thanks

HarryWaisbren:
My pleasure---make sure to let us know anything we can do to make these tweetchats better!

Julian:
Disagree Brandon; if they're using 215 for data mining, giving up the relevance presumption is a freebie--wasn't helping them anyway. The spec & articulable would've actually reined it in.

Jim Burrows:
This page does nothing, but you might be able to use it: http://www.eldacur.com/HJC.html

Jim Burrows:
No functionality. I can only write html so fast.

Julian:
That DoJ is apparently willing to trade the presumption for the lower evidentiary showing bar should be more worrying, not less

Brandon at ARL:
I'd like to hear why the change to "specific and articulable" changes anything at all. Someone suggested it would stop some "program," but I just don't see how or why. And I don't see how a clever DOJ attorney couldn't dance around that slight change in language.

Jim Burrows:
I probably should have sorted alphabetically.

Brandon at ARL:
"S&A" comes from the stop-and-frisk context, where a cop on the beat has to have "specific and articulable facts" to justify stopping a random kid on the street. He can't have an inarticulate suspicion, since that's usually a proxy for racism or other prejudice. But if the FBI has to enumerate facts (as they do under current law and the revised standard), those facts are by definition "specific" and "articulable."

Julian:
S&A is from Mapp v Ohio and has a fairly well established meaning from that context; it would probably be read to require greater particularity in the showing of relevance for each type of record sought

HarryWaisbren:
Seems like a very good start for making it on the fly, Jim. Thanks for putting it together!

Jim Burrows:
The program is basically a fishing expedition, I bet. They are doing some flavor of broad data mining. without specific and articulable facts and some think that it works at keeping us safe and so is good. Oters see the Constitutional imp,ications and ...

That's just my guess.

JeffK:
My point to Schiff and everyone else that voted for telecom immunity is that doing so is a violation of their oath of office. You cannot swear to uphold the laws of the United States and then go back in time to remove the jurisdiction of Fed Courts over pending cases under a 30 year old statute. If those civil cases proceed, the discovery process could provide real information that would actually help guide this process. I really think this is the strategic lynchpin for the transparency we need. Thoughts?

Julian:
I'm reluctant to make immunity too central. Seems fairly clear Hoyer did his about face on FAA under strong lobbying from the telecoms; hard enough fight with DOJ on the other side without getting Verizon & Comcast back into it.

BleuZ00m:
If you believe in Justice watch: Daybreak : David Swanson in Philadelphia & Villanova http://bit.ly/tArzo #patriotact HJC Comm in break #p2

BleuZ00m:
While we're waiting for the HJC proceedings to resume, sharing with you a video a friend in Phila just released: David Swanson discusses his book :" Day Break" : Undoing the Imperial Presidency and Forming a More Perfect Union. " "If you believe in Justice watch this: http://bit.ly/tArzo" says Monique (my friend/guerilla videographer) Yes, we can watch this later; just wanted to share it with you.

Julian:
Call it the "don't invade Russia" principle

HarryWaisbren:
JeffK----sadly, violations of oath of office have not been a precursor to being removed from office in the way it should.

I agree entirely that shining the light on the rank criminality and hypocrisy inherent in this immunity farce would be the "strategic lynchpin" for much else. However, that is why there are so many so committed to preventing precisely that.

For example, after last summer's immunity, AT&T sponsored the Democratic National Convention with a symbol on the give away bags that even looked like a trade mark. Glenn Greenwald termed it "the AT&T Convention in Denver":

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/07/20/dnc/

Kevin Bankston:
Ah, but the grassroots and MSM really took to the immunity issue. It can be useful as an organizing point, to get people to click on a link.

BleuZ00m:
Kevin, that's exactly what we as a group can use. Make it personal.

Kevin Bankston:
we still see more uptake of "stop/repeal immunity" stuff than PATRIOT reform stuff, despite PATRIOT's brand recognition

jdp23:
oh great, i finally get online and we're at a break ...

Jim Burrows:
I just sorted the columns by name.
Still columns per party.

BleuZ00m:
To build our message, to gain support. Remember: the success of 60 Minutes is that each segment is ostensibly one person's story.

HarryWaisbren:
Agree entirely Kevin. We just must recognize what we are up against, because pulling on this thread will reveal so much else. There is already a book out about plugging in "the big brother machine" even!

Kevin Bankston:
yes, he's our star witness :-)

BleuZ00m:
Dive in Jon! We're on all cylinders right now! ;-)

samirnassar:
Reps @RepAdamSchiff and @Quigleycampaign, Ds who voted for "lone wolf" amendment, should be ashamed. via @EFF #patriotact

Kevin Bankston:
that reminds me that we ought to thank Holt for his bill, but I don't see procedurally how that will go anywhere. Guess it's a symbolic pressure-from-the-left gesture.

Julian:
I'm just saying: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/recips.php?ind=B09&cycle=2010&recipdetail=A&sortorder=U

Kevin Bankston:
believe me, I know

cvbarnhart:
is enjoying the @EFF live-tweet coverage of the #patriotact debate in the House Judiciary Committee.

Julian:
And with immunity broken out as a separate bill, pickup is to some extent 0-sum

Gryphonskull:
RT @ACLU Chairman Conyers asserts irrelevance of the never-used "lone wolf" provision, saying criminal warrants suffice #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
What's amazing about the influx of telecom cash is that it's clearly not a partisan issue.

Many democrats are up to their eyeballs in telecom cash and need to be called on it.

Get FISA Right reached national prominence last summer when we called Obama on his support of the telecoms over the constitution, and his response to us was proof that the highest corridors of power were able to hear our message.

jdp23:
i'm not sure about that, Julian. there's definite synergy

Kevin Bankston:
I'm not arguing it will pass as a part of this process--I can't think of the last time all the money in the world lost a lobbying fight--only that it is still a valuable TP. However, as you'll note, it hasn't come up in our coverage of this hearing because it's not on the table. But Holt gives us a new excuse to talk about it.

[Comment From BrishenBrishen: ]
I agree w/ Jeff

BleuZ00m:
And with our new Open Letter in-draft, we will continue that conversation with the President.

Kevin Bankston:
is holt on twitter?

alapoet:
Come help us craft our open letter to President Obama about the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb #p2 #privacy

alapoet:
@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for temporary security. How un-American! http://act.ly/Res Pls RT #patriotact #p2

HarryWaisbren:
Exactly Amy. Why these conversations we're having right now are so important!

jdp23:
if anybody would like to spank Quigley on Facbook, there's a thread at http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=158963645688&topic=11396

HarryWaisbren:
I'll check that out right now Kevin

BleuZ00m:
Ooh wee Jon! Thanks for that! ;-)

Julian:
Apparently not http://tweetcongress.org/people/rush-holt

alapoet:
@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #patriotact reform, please also sponsor H 3846! http://act.ly/R1a #p2 #privacy

Kevin Bankston:
thx

BrokePimpStyles:
Come help us craft our open letter to President Obama about the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb #p2 #privacy via @alapoet

Croisan:
Crowdsourcing RT @alapoet: Come help us craft our open letter to President Obama about the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb #p2 #privacy

HarryWaisbren:
He does not twitter Kevin. Here's his facebook if that helps at all.

bnmeeks:
RT @normative: Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass.

PrisonMovement:
RT @BrokePimpStyles help us craft our open letter to President Obama about the #patriotact: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb #p2 #privacy via @alapoet

eff:
#patriotact watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix PATRIOT & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

Jim Burrows:
Amy, Is http://www.eldacur.com/HJC.html a usable scorecard for you? It does nothing/ Just tick marks. It was done WAY too quickly to be much.

jdp23:
Amy, please let me know if you can reply to that thread without signing up as a fan for Quigley. If this works, then i think we have a viable tactic on Facebook

HarryWaisbren:
I'll retweet that our accounts and add it to our tweeting points:

RT @eff: #patriotact watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix PATRIOT & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

Kevin Bankston:
thanks Harry, and Julian--I forgot about tweetcongress ("we the tweeple"?!)

jdp23:
btw i'm at an entrepeneurial forum listening to Jessica Clark from the Obama campaign and OFA talk about "from the social pulpit to the startup". i wonder if she'll talk about Get FISA Right?

BleuZ00m:
The way it work on FB.. in order to comment on someone's page, you have to first become a fan, then post the comment, then UN-fan yourself. Yes, it is kind of like leaving a big dump and running, but... ( forgive my off-color remark there, friends..)

JeffK:
Great links/discussion re the non-partisan telecom sell out proiblem. Maybe I'm just too outraged at rank hypocrisy and criminality of that aspect of the vote. (Well put Harry.) Everyone that I've talked to can understand why telecom immunity is wrong with a 2 minute discussion of the history of the issue. in 2 minutes put it so well. Breaking it out as a separate bill might be useful because it would provide focus on this point. e weakest point in the "aye" argument. he engaged with the

reyjunco:
RT @EFF #patriotact thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House vers of JUSTICE Act to fix PATRIOT & repeal telco immunity! http://bit.ly/2qdte8

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #patriotact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

HarryWaisbren:
RT @eff: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #patriotact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

JeffK:
Sorry for the trash at the end -- hit the wrong button!

jdp23:
Amy, that's true in general, but I think you might be able to reply to a comment on a discussion board without fanning

msnbcwatcher:
RT @normative Lamar Smith introducing #patriotact amendment to renew "lone wolf". Here's why not to: http://tr.im/lonewolf #p2

jdp23:
it worked (i think) when we tested it a month or so ago

Brandon at ARL:
Yeah, I was able to comment without becoming a fan.

cyn3matic:
RT @HarryWaisbren, @eff Thx 2 Rep. Holt 4 intro'ing House vrsn of #JUSTICEAct 2 fix #patriotact & repeal telco immunity http://eff.org/r.5b2

HarryWaisbren:
JeffK----I think you are enitrely right that people intuitively understand why telecom immunity is wrong. Not only because spying on Americans is so anti-thetical to our sense of freedom, but because of the concept of shutting down judicial investigations also betrays any notion of separation of powers or accountability.

Conservatives often cite the need for more "personal responsbiilty". I believe there is an even greater latent groundswell of support for corporate responsibliity!

JeffK:
But I guess the Pelosi telecom contribution figure would mean a separate telecom immunity stripping bill would never make it to the floor.

msnbcwatcher:
RT @ACLU_NorCal Right NOW: follow @ACLU for live updates on the #patriotact hearing or follow @ACLULGBT for live #ENDA hearing updates. #p2

msnbcwatcher:
RT @normative Tie vote on #patriotact lone wolf renewal amendment; fails to pass. #p2

jdp23:
RT @eff: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #patriotact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2 #p2

bnmeeks:
RT @normative: Lamar Smith introducing #patriotact amendment to renew "lone wolf". Here's why not to: http://tr.im/lonewolf

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix PATRIOT & repeal (cont) http://tl.gd/rj3r

scientes:
RT @EFF watch: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #patriotact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

Afthought:
RT @ACLU HJC #patriotact hearing break for floor votes. Returns on live stream: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #law #constitution #p2

eff:
#patriotact watch: House Judiciary Committee reconvening now to continue PATRIOT Act debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

ghsfr33d0m:
RT @EFF #patriotact: A wobbly start-amndmnt by Smith(R-TX) to preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap power barely beaten back, 15-15.

Jim Burrows:
If anyone is going to try to use my http://www.eldacur.com/HJC.html refreshing it should give you aye/nay/-- defaulted to --. No way to count or do a full reset once you check things. Still it is a quickie scorecard with no funcionality.

BleuZ00m:
#patriotact HJC hearings JUST now resuming: http://eff.org/r.5bq Live chat with justice champions @GETFISARIGHT right now.

Kevin Bankston:
thanks jim!

BleuZ00m:
Ahh thank YOU Jim for your quick work! (Take a bow, friend!)

HarryWaisbren:
RT @BleuZ00m: HJC #patriotact hearings JUST now resuming: http://eff.org/r.5bq Live chat with justice champions @GETFISARIGHT right now.

BleuZ00m:
(Hmm.. where's Mr. Smith? Getting his talking points from Rove? )

HarryWaisbren:
Great work Jim

GetFISARight:
HJC #patriotact hearings are now resuming: http://eff.org/r.5bq

HarryWaisbren:
Now Amy, I'm sure Smith receives his Rove talking points via his blackberry allowing Rove to direct him no matter where he is :)

Jim Burrows:
Oo. Harry. High tech. Cool.

BleuZ00m:
@MoniqueFrugier Thank YOU for your new video! Perfect timing/topic for the #patriotact hearings again today. HUGS! http://eff.org/r.5bq

BleuZ00m:
(Did anyone get a glimpse of Smith's back? Looking for that telltale hump, like Bush had, during one of the debates..)

HarryWaisbren:
Rove's famous for his blackberry usage. He even had one of the earliest experimental mobile e-mail programs pre-blackberry.

BleuZ00m:
Ooh! Baldwin's up! This will be great!

HarryWaisbren:
Baldwin was my congresswoman until recently. I'm quite a fan!

normative:
Tammy Baldwin has a #patriotact amendment... this should be interesting. Doubt whatever it is will pass, but should be interesting.

BleuZ00m:
#patriotact HJC :TammyBaldwin introducing Amndt: watch live: http://eff.org/r.5bq Live chat with justice champions @GETFISARIGHT right now.

Jim Burrows:
Let's see how they argue against this one. Should be revealing.

BleuZ00m:
From her wording, it's almost as if Rep Baldwin has already read our Letters to the President..

BleuZ00m:
Yessss indeed, Jim!

normative:
Baldwin proposes "sense of Congress" enjoining prez to periodically review classification of FISA/NSL collection programs. #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
You go, Tammy! whoa yeah!

Jim Burrows:
Hear! Haer!

Jim Burrows:
What a tool!

BleuZ00m:
WTF? Smith says the FISA has been weakened? What planet is he from?

Jim Burrows:
NSL, actually.

yahuiWA:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: House Judiciary Committee reconvening now to continue PATRIOT Act debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

HarryWaisbren:
Tammy Baldwin and Russ Feingold both make me incredibly proud to be a Wisconsinite through and through.

eff:
#patriotact watch: Thx @RepTammyBaldwin criticizing level of secrecy in debate w/amdmt req'ing declassification review of FISA&NSL programs

normative:
Lamar gives Baldwin amendment "the weakest endorsement I've ever heard" (sez Conyers) but no objection. #patriotact

normative:
Argument against reforming #patriotact hinges on paucity of known abuses, but Coble wants to strip reporting requirements

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: Baldwin proposes enjoining prez to periodically review classification of FISA/NSL collection programs #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Question for any of us: do we think these hearings will veer into the Torture photos snakepit? When Baldwin began to speak, in light of her military service, that's what popped into my head..

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative: Baldwin proposes enjoining prez to periodically review classification of FISA/NSL collection programs #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Yes! Conyers is slick to defer the 'lone wolf' nonsense. Yeehaw!

BleuZ00m:
ahh Jackson!

HarryWaisbren:
@RepTammyBaldwin's proposal on FISA/NSL collection programs makes me even prouder to be a Wisconsinite! #patriotact

Brandon at ARL:
She's doing material support - exciting.

BleuZ00m:
@Brandon, that's exactly what we need right now.

BleuZ00m:
Great tack: how will Smith try to slither Jackson's parry?

Kevin Bankston:
I just tweeted about Baldwin amendment passing but mucked up the hashtag, could someone retweet with corrected hashtag? patriotact# watch: @RepTammyBaldwin amendment requiring declassification review of FISA & NSL surveillance programs passes by voice vote!

jdp23:
btw Tammy baldwin's on Twitter -- http://twitter.com/RepTammyBaldwin

Kevin Bankston:
so, #patriotact rather than my goof patriotact#

jdp23:
GREAT time for an act.ly petition

BleuZ00m:
Kevin, what's your tweet tag? I will add you to my GFR public tweet list, too. Any of us can use it, btw

Jim Burrows:
This sounds well-crafted. Bet the hawks won't go for it, still
.

HarryWaisbren:
Agreed Jon. I had sent a tweet to baldwin's account saying she makes me proud to be a wisconsinite, but htat's not applicable for an act.ly

normative:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: @RepTammyBaldwin amdt. requiring declassification review of FISA & NSL programs passes by voice vote!

jdp23:
yeah ... maybe congratulations on the amendment and thanks supporting the constitution, something like that

HarryWaisbren:
Ok Jon, I'm on it

Jim Burrows:
Yes, Jon. That sounds good.

jdp23:
and maybe think about incorporating into the open letter.

jdp23:
okay, i'm off now. heads-down workshop

jdp23:
good luck all!

Jim Burrows:
Yes. I think so, Jon.

HarryWaisbren:
Ok, how about this:

@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! #patriotact

Could cut down on words, and maybe ned more specifics on the amendment...thoughts?

BleuZ00m:
Thank you Jon! Buttonhole that OFA person about GFR..at your seminar, eh? Just a thought?

HarryWaisbren:
I like the idea of incorporating it into the open letter.

Amy, Jim, what do you two think about that?

Jim Burrows:
I agree with putting it in the letter, Harry.

EWPLDF:
RT @EFF #patriotact thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix PATRIOT & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

normative:
Ruh-roh. Nadler opposing #patriotact "material support" tweak to broaden humanitarian exemption

HarryWaisbren:
Ok, if no other thoughts, sending out this act.ly RT Baldwin campaign

Brandon at ARL:
Nadler is acting like there is already a specific intent requirement in the material support bill, but my understanding is that that is not the case.

skiquel:
The wrong thing with #patriotact is it encourages assuming bad faith, and breeds endless uncertainty rather than determine guilt/innocence.

myrnatheminx:
Follow @emptywheel and @normative for updates on the Justice Act hearings today #patriotact #p2 #tlot #tcot

BleuZ00m:
It should be a two-step: first, fire off the act.ly, to 'gin' up of-the-moment fervor and commitment, then second tease them back to sign AND share/forward the Open Letter. This locks in our message with immediacy and considered, profound entreaties. Short take: we are not flamers; here's proof: 1, petition; 2, letter to the President in a continuing conversation.

HarryWaisbren:
@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 Pls RT #patriotact

skiquel:
#patriotact is wrong 'cause it encourages assuming bad faith + breeds endless uncertainty instead of determining guilt/innocence.

Jim Burrows:
Very good, Amy

BleuZ00m:
CREDO, DFA does this one-two punch all the time and it is VERY effective.

normative:
Smith makes procedural objection; not sure why NSL reform is germane but not #patriotact material support; neither expiring.

GetFISARight:
@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 Pls RT #patriotact

alapoet:
RT @MyrnaTheMinx Follow @emptywheel and @normative for updates on the #JusticeAct hearings today #patriotact #p2 #tlot

L_Hawkins:
RT @alapoet: RT @MyrnaTheMinx Follow @emptywheel and @normative for updates on the #JusticeAct hearings today #patriotact #p2 #tlot

HarryWaisbren:
RT @emptywheel Tammy Baldwin calls for Admin to declassify programs relying on NSLs and other PATRIOT authorities. Yeah!! #patriotact

bnmeeks:
RT @normative: RT @EFF #patriotact @RepTammyBaldwin amdt. requiring declassification review of FISA & NSL programs passes by voice vote!

Brons:
@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 #patriotact

Kevin Bankston:
thanks for the retweet, folks; bleuZ00m, we're @EFF, using hashtag #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
And FDL does this one-two, then polishes it with a donation appeal. You've seen Jane's numbers, dollars raised for her HCR efforts. Yes, in full disclosure, I diary on FDL's Seminal..

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Kevin! I wasn't sure.

BleuZ00m:
(BleuZ00m /aka/ Amy, in case anyone was wondering..)

Jim Burrows:
Nice to see disagreement across party lines on the basisof content.

Jim Burrows:
(I tweet as Brons, as long as we're clarifying such things)

ACLUNV:
All #NV lovers of #liberty and #freedom should be watching the #patriotact hearing live NOW http://eff.org/r.5bq

BleuZ00m:
All lovers of #liberty and #freedom should be watching the #patriotact hearing live NOW http://eff.org/r.5bq Thx R!! @ACLUNV @GETFISARIGHT

HarryWaisbren:
RT @EFF Thx @RepTammyBaldwin criticizing level of secrecy in debate w/amdmt req'ing declassification review of FISA&NSL programs #patriotact

normative:
Yes, Rep. Rooney, standard for getting a pen/trap dates from 1986; that's WHY its time to revisit, not an argument against #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Q: Is Rooney a newbie? (forgive my ignorance, friends!)

HarryWaisbren:
@RepTammyBaldwin only has 299 followers. I bet she's going to hear about our tweets to her, so let's keep them coming!

Our latest suggested tweet:

@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 #patriotact

Brons:
RT @ACLUNV: All #NV lovers of #liberty and #freedom should be watching the #patriotact hearing live NOW http://eff.org/r.5bq

BleuZ00m:
PLS RT! @RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing.Thanks for supporting the Constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 #patriotact #p2

eff:
#patriotact watch: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email and web site addresses using "pen register"

BleuZ00m:
Grrreat tweet, Kevin! Yesss

HarryWaisbren:
I like that one too

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
RT @eff: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
#patriotact: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email and web site addresses using "pen register" #p2 !

normative:
Issa equivalence bet. pen/trap and "writing down license plate numbers" may be most dishonest yet #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
How can Gallegly trump up, defend on behalf of local police, the need for email/web site addresses? Aren't local police excluded from this provision, friends?

BleuZ00m:
Thank YOU Justin! Key point.

Julian:
no

eff:
#patriotact Issa (R-CA) thinks tracking yr private dialing and email to/from info is no more invasive than writing down yr license plate #?!

scientes:
RT @eff Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact

Kevin Bankston:
no, the pen trap statute covers state and local practices as well. they can make more protective local laws but not less protective local laws.

Julian:
Lungren is actually right; Schiff was confused about this... this is title 18 criminal pen/trap order

Julian:
the "presumption of relevance" he's talking about doesn't exist here.

Kevin Bankston:
Lungren "speechless"--would love to see more of that

Kevin Bankston:
Schiff, stop it!

Brandon at ARL:
The other substitute Schiff proposed was not cool either - substituting "statement of facts relied upon by the agent to establish belief" rather than "statement of facts showing." That makes the standard subjective.

Brandon at ARL:
The one he's saying now.

Kevin Bankston:
thank god the Rs aren't biting on it

Brandon at ARL:
Looks like they just don't see what's going on. Whew!

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: Thx @RepTammyBaldwin criticizing level of secrecy in debate w/amdmt req'ing declassific (cont) http://tl.gd/rjl6

BleuZ00m:
Ah yes.. in this case: baffle them with brilliance to defeat their bumfuzzle of BS.

ksquared3:
RT @EFF #patriotact Issa(R-CA) thinks tracking yr private dialing&email to/fr info no more invasive thn writing down yr licensePlate #p2 #L2

Julian:
This is a long overdue change, but actually sufficiently broad that the idea that there should be separate hearings on it isn't totally crazy.

BleuZ00m:
Hmm.. we've got a 'Vote: Present' .. the sands are shifting.. I know. Too soon to tell.

BleuZ00m:
10 aye, 12 no; not adopted.. Just keeping track here.

normative:
Rooney amendment to block stricter pen/trap order standard shot down 12-10. #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
(Because I'm keeping a running log of our discussions, for our collective work ahead AND for ALL of your excellent links and observations!!)

HarryWaisbren:
Glad to hear you're doing that Amy!

eff:
#patriotact watch: more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

normative:
Now he's trying the same move with the FISA pen/trap order. Mechanically rereading definition of a pen/trap. #patriotact

ksquared3:
RT @EFF #patriotact more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

dunit50:
RT #patriotact Issa (R-CA) thinks tracking yr private dialing and email to/from is no more invasive than writing down yr license plate?!

Jim Burrows:
The 12/10 on the previous vote included 4 Ayes on the Demcratic side of the aisle

OverclokT:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

Kevin Bankston:
Do you know who the 4 were?

GetFISARight:
RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

Kevin Bankston:
I missed that, audio garbled, did the FISA pen register amendment pass or fail?

Jim Burrows:
Johnson Pierluisi Quigley and Schiff by my count

Brandon at ARL:
Failed Kevin.

Kevin Bankston:
Phew

bnmeeks:
RT @normative: Rooney amendment to block stricter pen/trap order standard shot down 12-10. #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Quick break from @GetFISARight #patriotact tweeting to congratulate @AriMelber on passing the NY bar!

normative:
Also, maybe we'd know more about whether pen/traps misused if DOJ weren't so delinquent on reporting http://tr.im/pentraps #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Congratulations @AriMelber on passing the NY bar! Take a bow! Woohoo! From your friends @GETFISARIGHT #patriotact

eff:
#patriotact watch: Woot, 2nd R amdmt to weaken protections against "pen register" surveillance of phone & internet data fails on voice vote

Kevin Bankston:
so what does this amendment do? AG report on what when who?

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: Woot, 2nd R amdmt 2 weaken protections against "pen register" surveillance of phone & internet data fails on voice vote #patriotact

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email and web si (cont) http://tl.gd/rjqd

ACLU_Mass:
#patriotact hearing is now in progress. Watch Live Online: http://bit.ly/11Wf8O #freedom #privacy #surveillance #nsl #fbi

Brandon at ARL:
This is a great amendment - public reporting on use of 215, NSL, sneak-n-peek, and roving wiretaps

Brandon at ARL:
AG has to formulate procedures for posting these things on the web

Brandon at ARL:
Comity. :(

Brandon at ARL:
Withdrawn.

Brandon at ARL:
No, the certification gets the weight of its merit.

ACLU_Mass:
#patriotact Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment to preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Conyers explains why its unconstitutional via @EFF

Julian:
Oh you've got to be s**ing me. He thinks a court needs a specific statutory injunction to be deferential to intel determinations of security risk?

Brandon at ARL:
SO deeply dishonest.

BleuZ00m:
Brandon, don't we need to hear -- or revisit -- just what is meant by the weight of its merit. To me, this is the heart of the matter, re sneak-n-peek, NSL...

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact Issa (R-CA) thinks tracking yr private dialing and email to/from info is no more invasive than (cont) http://tl.gd/rjrq

BleuZ00m:
Who besides Conyers has the finesse, the scalpel, to get to this, definitively? Here on the committee? Bummer that AG Holder can't intervene here. And remembering that Holder said, in part, that he would...

0rw3ll:
RT:@EFF: #patriotact watch: more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses

normative:
Lungren is in the process of explaining why gag order amendment he's proposing is legally unnecessary. #patriotact

Kevin Bankston:
bwahah

Brandon at ARL:
Go Bobby, go!

Jim Burrows:
Right. Without a law directing them, judges won't defer to the government that thye are part of. Sounds likely.

Brandon at ARL:
Right - there is already a hugely stacked deck in the finding the court must make before dismissing a gag.

Jim Burrows:
Hear! Hear! Well said, Bobby.

BleuZ00m:
[Off-topic tweet, eye on Armey-led onslaught today in DC: "Sign: "OBAMA TAKES ORDERS FROM THE ROTHSCHILDS" Good to see House GOP align itself with antisemitic nutjobs. #teabachle" ]

Brandon at ARL:
I hate it when they say "business records" -- it's ANY TANGIBLE THING. Hasn't been business records since 2001.

Julian:
Wait, Kevin, is there even adversarial process when they're assessing the specific basis for the gag?

Jim Burrows:
"The Executive" = "The Commander in Chief"? Pfui on that!
It's a whole branch.

Brandon at ARL:
Dangit Schiff.

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phon (cont) http://tl.gd/rjta

Jim Burrows:
There he goes making the case that his amendment is unnecessary.

Julian:
I mean, I guess the flip side is that it's probably not that harmful either. Schiff's notion that courts will decide "no weight" is nuts, but "substantial weight" is certainly no MORE than they'd afford without guidance; quite possibly less

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: Woot, 2nd R amdmt to weaken protections against "pen register" surveillance o (cont) http://tl.gd/rju9

Jim Burrows:
I agree Julian. Some standard that is not complete or utmost is reasonable. It seems odd to have to tell them to give "due deference".

normative:
They're spending a lot of time at #patriotact hearing on an amendment that is probably neither necessary nor harmful.

Julian:
Because otherwise, of course, they'd give deference they thought wasn't due

ACLUNV:
grrrr....feed isn't working. :-( thanks for your comments, everyone- it's the only way i know what is going on.

Julian:
Totally frivolous, but as a Sanchez can I register finding the affectedly correct pronunciation of Gutierrez annoying every time

scientes:
NotN: Device that "smells" snake oil could identify terrorists http://2tu.us/11d5 #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
3 D's on aye: Pierluisi, Quigley, Schiff

Brandon at ARL:
It's just overkill. The court already has to find that there is NO reason to believe that removing a gag will, among other things, harm an ongoing investigatoin. When will releasing a gag NOT arguably harm an investigation? It's already rigged.

BleuZ00m:
Rebecca, we'll keep you in the loop, don't worry, k? ;-)

Jim Burrows:
That's how I understand it Brandon.

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Jim

eff:
#patriotact on a roll: Lungren (R-CA) amdmt 2 make it easier 4 gov 2 gag recipients of PATRIOT 215 biz records orders fails 8-11, now recess

Julian:
Well, the court already essentially rejected the "no reason" standard, or at least constructed it as meaning "no good reason"

Jim Burrows:
Julian, you are so registered. :-)

Julian:
I thought this one was probably harmless. But maybe one more bargaining chip for reconciliation

Julian:
Well, while they're recessed, maybe I"ll duck into the office and watch the rest from there.

Jim Burrows:
Thank you, Amy for suggesting we have a scorecard. Wouldn't have written it or been able to keep track without your suggestion.

BleuZ00m:
While the proceedings are in recess, may I ask any of our attenders to share with me link(s) of recent cases that may have nibbled at or attempted to overturn aspects of this 'BigBrother' legislation? I seem to remember two cases out of the 10th Circuit, last year? Some of you now that I am not a lawyer, am new to the team but intensely committed to this, and I am gulping down all info as fast as I can find it. Please email me with links, friends, if that's simpler? ringb561@yahoo.com or bleuz00m@gmail.com or friend me on FB / LinkedIn (Amy L. Ringenbach)

BleuZ00m:
Having a scorecard helps us, yes! Thanks Jim!! Forgive the analogy here, but what popped into my head was all those sports stats fiends at the (boohoo!) last World Series game last night.. Them with their clipboards. You know, like the Rotisserie league football guys and yes, women, too.

BleuZ00m:
Fyi Rebecca : Since your feed is hiccupping, HJC is in break right now. How are the ENDA hearings going, btw? Oops.. off-topic. Tweet me later with details, as you can?

normative:
Recess; heading to Cato to watch the rest of #patriotact markup

BleuZ00m:
Staying with the sports analogy for a moment.. let's dust off the mound and take a quick look, as you can, at the new Open Letter we've drafted. Harry and Jon and the rest of us are looking for YOUR feedback on this. Just making sure we're agreeing on our 'collective signals..'
Get up; stretch, get a refill of whatever you're imbibing and take a look at the new Open Letter:here's the link:http://bit.ly/2fDWDb

bonnierubio:
Reading @EFF #patriotact watch seriously has me on the edge of my seat. It's like 'oh god, oh god, yes!'

BleuZ00m:
And we're back.. Quorum call

eff:
Thanks! RT @bonnierubio: Reading @EFF #patriotact watch seriously has me on the edge of my seat. It's like 'oh god, oh god, yes!'

charleshb:
RT @EFF: #patriotact : Lungren (R-CA) amdmt 2 make it easier 4 gov 2 gag recipients of PATRIOT 215 biz records orders fails 8-11, now recess

BleuZ00m:
Everybody in on the feed okay? And Julian, thanks for the extra link, too! Rebecca, we'll keep you in the loop,k? :-)

eff:
#patriotact watch: Committee back in session for more PATRIOT debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: Committee back in session for more PATRIOT debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

Brandon at ARL:
Only a legislator can love a "will-may-shall" joke.

BleuZ00m:
#patriotact HJC hearing resumes; WATCHLIVE: http://eff.org/r.5bq Schiff: clarifies 'pen register';RepJackson next up. Join us:@GETFISARIGHT

antelopelovefan:
If you're not already keeping an eye on it, @EFF is doing a live #patriotact watch. Fascinating stuff!

GetFISARight:
We've been having a fantastic #patriotact tweetchat w/ lots of expert participation, come join: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

cavilling_elite:
RT @GetFISARight: RT @eff: #patriotact watch: Committee back in session for more PATRIOT debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

scientes:
#patriotact Issa: congress should let executive do anything that has not been explicitely declared unconstitutional What about his pledge?

BleuZ00m:
WTF.. where is Issa going with this? I know he chugs the Repug Kool-aid..

Jim Burrows:
That was a wonderfully overblown way of stating his case. Booga-booga! Be scared!

Token12ga:
RT @getfisaright: We've been having a fantastic #patriotact tweetchat w/ lots of expert participation, come join: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

baratunde:
wow! RT @GetFISARight: having fantastic #patriotact tweetchat w/ lots of expert participation, come join: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE #p2 #tcot

TheAngryindian:
RT @eff #patriotact watch: Committee back in session for more PATRIOT debate, webcast at http://eff.org/r.5bq

eff:
#patriotact setback: another bad "pen register" surveillance amendment--this time from Schiff, a Dem--just passed by a voice vote.

pittswiley:
RT @GetFISARight: having fantastic #patriotact tweetchat w/ lots of expert participation, come join: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE #p2 #tcot

BleuZ00m:
Do you care about your privacy? WatchLIVE:http://eff.org/r.5bq #patriotact; chat w/ key expert participation, come join! http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

eff:
#patriotact switch-up: Committee putting PATRIOT on hold for a bit, turning instead to state secrets reform bill (woot!)

ACSLaw:
RT @EFF: #patriotact switch-up: Committee putting PATRIOT on hold for a bit, turning instead to state secrets reform bill

Brandon at ARL:
Wonder how Smith felt about Cheney's meetings with oil executives...

[Comment From JulianJulian: ]
He's gilding the lily, but not sure this is substantively a big deal

[Comment From JulianJulian: ]
Is anyone clear on exactly what Schiff's bill did?

Julian:
OK, sorry, apparently I was on some kind of weird delay

[Comment From JulianJulian: ]
... does this differ in any way from the Rooney amdt they voted down before the recess, other than the audit?

GetFISARight:
RT @EFF: #patriotact switch-up: Committee putting PATRIOT on hold for a bit, turning instead to state secrets reform bill

CitizensNews:
RT @BleuZ00m: Do you care about your privacy? WatchLIVE: http://eff.org/r.5bq #patriotact; chat come join! http://bit.ly/Qq5VE

normative:
They've moved from #patriotact to State Secrets after passing a pen/trap amendment from Adam Schiff, effect not wholly clear

philosopher1967:
RT @BleuZ00m: Do you care about your privacy? WatchLIVE:http://eff.org/r.5bq #patriotact; chat w/ key expert partic (cont) http://tl.gd/rkm9

janetalkstech:
RT @EFF: #patriotact switch-up: Committee putting PATRIOT on hold for a bit, turning instead to state secrets reform bill (woot!)

HarryWaisbren:
@baratunde glad to u like the tweetchat in the @GetFISARight #patriotact Action Hub: http://bit.ly/Qq5VE Thanks for RTing! #p2

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: They've moved from #patriotact to State Secrets after passing a pen/trap amendment from Adam Schiff, effect not wholly clear

BleuZ00m:
PLS RT:HJC: moved from #patriotact to State Secrets? After a pen/trap amendment fr/ Schiff, effect not wholly clear? http://eff.org/r.5bq

GetFISARight:
RT @emptywheel: I suspect means Schiff sees the value 4 oversight at local level, but he also sees problem with higher standard. #patriotact

Jim Burrows:
Green eggs and ham I love it.

Brandon at ARL:
Another recess...

Brandon at ARL:
would be bad.

normative:
@emptywheel Just called Schiff's office to get a copy of his #patriotact amendment, figure out what exactly they just approved

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: @emptywheel Just called Schiff's office 2 get a copy of his #patriotact amendment, figure out what exactly they just approved

HarryWaisbren:
RT @normative: @emptywheel Just called Schiff's office 2 get a copy of his #patriotact amendment, figure out what exactly they just approved

eff:
#patriotact Go Nadler! State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty at present", used as "magic incantation" by gov't to cover wrongdoing

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: #patriotact Go Nadler! State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty at present", used as "ma (cont) http://tl.gd/rkr5

BleuZ00m:
@philosopher1967 Thanks for your RTs, friend! And your eagle eyes,too Do check out @GETFISARIGHT #patriotact Watchlive: http://eff.org/r.5bq

disavian:
@EFF #patriotact *high five*

jlmundell:
RT @EFF: #patriotact State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty at present", used as "magic incantation" by gov't to cover wrongdoing

BleuZ00m:
RT! Join us, @disavian !High five back at you! Do check out @GETFISARIGHT #patriotact Watchlive: http://eff.org/r.5bq #p2

namralkeeg:
RT @EFF: #patriotact setback: another bad "pen register" surveillance amendment--this time from Schiff, a Dem--just passed by a voice vote.

ACLUNV:
RT @EFF: #patriotact hearing - Go Nadler! State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 #liberty at present". @LasVegasNow

BleuZ00m:
#REPNADLER : You Rock! Thank you for defending our liberties! Listening Live to HJC. #patriotact @GETFISARIGHT @EFF #p2 @buzzflash

Jim Burrows:
We are back to the Patriot Act!

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: Go Nadler! State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty @ present", used as "magic incantation" by gov 2 hide wrongdoing #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
It's about freakin' time... get back to the task at hand, please? What was that diversion?

Brons:
HJC consideration of the #patriotact resumes

HarryWaisbren:
Ha, day 2 of comitting just about all waking hours to Patriot Act. Feels good no doubt, but diversions are understandable of course as well :)

BleuZ00m:
Oh, I know, Harry. But it is amazing. Last week, I read through chunks of HCR legislation. Talk about diversions.

BleuZ00m:
Thank you Mr Conyers!

Jim Burrows:
Whhoops. Sorry. I missed doing the score card this time. My bad.

HarryWaisbren:
What's great about working on Patriot and FISA right now is that so few others are---quite needed work.

Fortunately, there is a groundswell of enthusiasm for health care. It's our job to build the same for civil liberties!

korkie:
Hi .... any major decisions?

HarryWaisbren:
Hey korkie, I'll try to replay some "greatest hits" tweets here to get you (and any other interested onlookers) up to speed

BleuZ00m:
Hang on a sec, Korkie. Justin, Kevin can you sum? Or, Korkie, go to @GETFISARIGHT and @EFF and scan their posts.

korkie:
thanks harry ..... sorry I had to bail..

korkie:
I'm off to do some reading

HarryWaisbren:
From Julian Sanchez aka @Normative:

@normative: They've moved from #patriotact to State Secrets after passing a pen/trap amendment from Adam Schiff, effect not wholly clear

From Kevin Bankston tweeting from @Eff:

@eff: Woot, 2nd R amdmt 2 weaken protections against "pen register" surveillance of phone & internet data fails on voice vote #patriotact

BleuZ00m:
Or go to my tweet page, @BleuZ00m, click on my public GFR list and scroll down. Almost all of us are tracked to that list today.

mgriego:
Been following the @EFF live-tweeting of the #patriotact and state secrets discussions in congress today.

Yit:
Here's hoping the #patriotact gets amended. @eff

BleuZ00m:
Thanks Harry! :-D

normative:
House Judiciary approves (reasonably good) #patriotact reform 16-10

HarryWaisbren:
More "greatest hits":

@EFF: #patriotact more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

@eff: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact

@emptywheel: Tammy Baldwin calls for Admin to declassify programs relying on NSLs and other PATRIOT authorities. Yeah!!

sameerverma:
@ylynfatt better tRT @EFF #patriotact Issa (R-CA) thinks tracking yr private dialing and email to/from info is no more invasive than writing

eff:
#patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

Yit:
As I was typing that, it looks like #patriotact is getting amended! Hurrah!

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: House Judiciary approves (reasonably good) #patriotact reform 16-10

ranggrol:
RT @normative - House Judiciary approves (reasonably good) #patriotact reform, 16-10

GetFISARight:
Nice! RT @eff: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill 2 floor w/ most major reforms intact

eachus:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

BleuZ00m:
@mgriego Thanks for following #patriotact today! Made good progress. Nadler, Conyers, Baldwin ROCK! Do check it out: @GETFISARIGHT

johnattebury:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

mikehall:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF #patriotact: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10 #p2

GetFISARight:
Great that HJC didn't agree RT @emptywheel Shorter Sensenbrenner: "I'm as fond of Dems abusing power as I am of Repubs doing so" #patriotact

opcode1300:
#patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10 ~eff

korkie:
I gotta go ..... got some HCR work to do. Will check if after my phone calls

HarryWaisbren:
Take care Korkie! We'll have a quick summary post up soon.

BleuZ00m:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill 2 floor w/ most major reforms intact #p2

HarryWaisbren:
Speaking of which, anyone else care to go over our next steps for tonight?

BleuZ00m:
Good luck with the HCR work, Korkie. I know DC was swarming with the #teabacle today. Check back later, as you can?

bbaskin:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

philosopher1967:
RT @MSNBCWatcher: RT @EFF #patriotact: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floo (cont) http://tl.gd/rl5q

huertanix:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House JudicComm recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact 16-10

BleuZ00m:
Yes! @GETFISARIGHT #patriotact: House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10. #p2

normative:
Apropos of #patriotact hearing, I plan to use "reclaiming my time" to shush people who interrupt me from now on.

BleuZ00m:
Love it, Julian!!

HarryWaisbren:
Amy and Jim, are you two planning on doing more tonight or you taking a (undoubtedly well deserved) break?

If you are available, I could use help putting together our analysis of what happened as well as further promoting and soliciting more input on our open letter to President Obama.

SciencePundit:
RT @BleuZ00m: Yes! #patriotact: House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10.

Julian:
I'm writing it up for American Prospect either tomorrow or monday... any reason it would be preferable to run sooner?

HarryWaisbren:
I definitely wouldn't say you should rush it at the expense of quality.

If we are actively engaging a "flash action" perhaps, but I don't know if we make that big push considering we just won a victory.

Julian:
ok

HarryWaisbren:
In general though, we need to start thinking about next steps. Where we want to take the energy we have accumulated, and what pressure points to push.

Julian:
Geez, this again. Fussing over the standard of deference in an ex parte hearing is like weighing yourself before getting on a see-saw alone

pyromanfo:
RT @EFF: #patriotact A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

HarryWaisbren:
Ha, it's a pity so many of these politicians are so petty.

BleuZ00m:
I have a dinner meeting with some local pols tonight, 6PM til probably 10:30PM EST(post election spit-balling, contract completion wrap-up) What do you need, Harry, Jim, Jon? Because these pols are $$ paying clients, I won't be drinking.. so I could pick up whatever you need when I get back? Yes, sniffing for new clients, truth be told...

BleuZ00m:
my feed just died..

HarryWaisbren:
I wouldn't sweat it Amy----if you check back later and see what we've done it'd be great if you can spread it to your networks, but it seems like you have a lot going on tonight.

rkref:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact

rkref:
RT @ranggrol: RT @normative - House Judiciary approves (reasonably good) #patriotact reform, 16-10

HarryWaisbren:
Jim, are you still here?

eff:
#patriotact watch and it don't stop: After PATRIOT win, back 2 state secrets, and @RepAdamSchiff is offering bad amndmnts on *that* bill 2!

GetFISARight:
Big #patriotact victory tonight! We're discerning next steps--biggest of which is our open letter to Obama: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb

HarryWaisbren:
RT @GetFISARight: Big #patriotact victory! We're discerning next steps--biggest of which is our open letter to Obama: http://bit.ly/2fDWDb

BleuZ00m:
Hey J! @sciencepundit Thanks for the RT re:#patriotact Will you be home later? And aren't you glad we weren't vid in DC today? Phew!

Jim Burrows:
Sorry, Harry. I got distracted. I am here now.

Jim Burrows:
I do sort of need to get away. Do you need me or need to get away yourself?

HarryWaisbren:
I'm working on a summary post, and thought I'd solicit any ideas from you first

Jim Burrows:
I'm not sure I have any observations not already in the chat. Is there something you'd like me to look over?

krushgroove:
RT @EFF #patriotact State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty at present", used as "magic incantation" by gov't to cover wrongdoing

HarryWaisbren:
Not yet, but thanks for the offer!

oif:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact 16-10

Jim Burrows:
I'll be away from my machine, probably, but I'll be near my phone, if you give me a buzz I can probably be available right away. Do you have my cell phone #?

Jim Burrows:
It is on the info tag in my FB profile.

HarryWaisbren:
I have your number Jim. Thanks much, you did fantastic work today as always!

Jim Burrows:
Always happy to do so. Don't hesitate to give me a buzz when you have something reviewable.

Kevin Bankston:
is there anyone watching/understanding the state secrets mark that could fill me in if I had to disappear for 10 minutes (been stuck tweeting at home, want to make a run for my office down the street)

jlmundell:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact, 16-10

Brandon at ARL:
Bye, everybody. This was a lot of fun and very helpful. Watch out for an ARL-Policy twitter account to come into being very soon. I used this tweet-chat and the activism you all do here to show my office how useful it will be for us to get into that universe. Plus I can stop spamming my friends with library policy tweets. :)

Julian:
More fussing over standard of deference in ex parte state secrets hearings

Kevin Bankston:
what did that second Schiff amendment do?

w3ace:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm recommends PATRIOT reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact 16-10

Julian:
I think it allows the appointment of a guardian ad litem in lieu of requiring clearances for plaintiff's counsel

norwind:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch and it don't stop: After PATRIOT win, back 2 state secrets, and @RepAdamSchiff is offeri (cont) http://tl.gd/rlgs

Julian:
but no longer paying super close attention

eff:
#patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot!

Julian:
Assuming that's all, not sure it's that bad... may help avoid sep powers tussle

philosopher1967:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to (cont) http://tl.gd/rlhv

normative:
RT @EFF #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! HJC favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot!

binarybits:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12!

mycomputerhurts:
RT @EFF: #patriotact ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12!

archivesinfo:
RT @oif: RT @EFF #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm recommends reform bill to floor with most major reforms intact

cavilling_elite:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12!

DoctorBadWolf:
RT:EFF #patriotact watch: BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot!

cscannella:
RT @EFF: #patriotact ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12!

jdp23:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill 2 floor w/ most major reforms intact #p2

jdp23:
RT@ eff: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! HJC. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot! #p2

HarryWaisbren:
RT@ eff: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! HJC. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot! #p2

GetFISARight:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! HJC. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot! #p2

BleuZ00m:
Thanks for co-sponsoring #patriotact reform @RepHankJohnson @RepJaneHarman @RepJacksonLee! http://act.ly/R16

BleuZ00m:
I’m not a terrorist–stop spying on Americans! Fix the #patriotact. http://act.ly/Rf Pls RT

CitizensNews:
RT @eff: #patriotact watch: BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12!

rei_c:
#patriotact reform: good #fthood events: very bad. what a day.

BleuZ00m:
Big #patriotact win today for your #freedom! @GETFISARIGHT view our Open Letter; join us:http://bit.ly/2fDWDb PlsRT: http://act.ly/Rhp #p2

eff:
Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

eachus:
RT @EFF: #patriotact: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot!

cavilling_elite:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact http://eff.org/r.b64

UltraNurd:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform & State Secrets Reform Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

tibbon:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform & State Secrets Reform Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

msnbcwatcher:
RT @EFF 2 Battles Won PATRIOT Reform & State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Comm! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64 #p2

el_gonzote:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform & State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Cmte! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

bblboy54:
RT @eff Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact http://eff.org/r.b64

drzuco:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact (cont) http://tl.gd/rm52

asteris:
RT @EFF 2 Battles Won: PATRIOT AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

w3ace:
RT @EFF Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact http://eff.org/r.b64

ACSLaw:
RT @MainJustice: Republicans Hold Mock #patriotact Hearing http://bit.ly/viARF #doj

normative:
If any HJC staffers happen to be following, I'd be interested in how many of the proposed #patriotact amendments came verbatim from DOJ

iamdriverdan:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact http://eff.org/r.b64

GetFISARight:
RT @normative: HJC staffers: I'd be interested in how many of the proposed #patriotact amendments came verbatim from DOJ

drewt333:
RT @eff Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact http://eff.org/r.b64

shanevanhulle:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact

joewallin:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Bills Pass House Judiciary Committee! #patriotact at http://eff.org/r.b64

Hegemommy:
RT @GetFISARight: RT @normative: HJC staffers: I'd be interested in how many of the proposed #patriotact amendments came verbatim from DOJ

kenny:
RT @EFF: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! House Judic. Comm. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12

GetFISARight:
Here's a summary post about this great day for civil liberties: http://bit.ly/1tN8tA #patriotact

HarryWaisbren:
Here's a summary post about this great day for civil liberties: http://bit.ly/1tN8tA #patriotact

Hegemommy:
RT @GetFISARight: Here's a summary post about this great day for civil liberties: http://bit.ly/1tN8tA #patriotact

thesidetrack:
RT @GetFISARight: ...great day for civil liberties: http://bit.ly/1tN8tA #patriotact

ACSLaw:
#patriotact & #StateSecrets reforms pass House Jud. Comm. (via @EFF) http://bit.ly/46TgNH

thesidetrack:
RT @EFF: Two Battles Won: PATRIOT Reform AND State Secrets Reform Pass House Judiciary Committee #patriotact wrap-up at http://eff.org/r.b64

HarryWaisbren:
Thanks to any and all who participated in the tweetchat today---it was a great day for civil liberties, and this chat was an example of how great it was for democratic discourse as wel!

Statistics

Hwaisbren — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:11:45 CST

	Current statistics on some interesting measurements, and historical statistics. Statistics from June 26-30 and Statistics from June 30-July 2 show our early growth last summer.

Current statistics on some interesting measurements, and historical statistics. Statistics from June 26-30 and Statistics from June 30-July 2 show our early growth last summer.

date/time (Eastern Standard Time)	tweets on #patriotact hashtag in the last week*	contributors on #patriotact hashtag in the last week*	members of Justice Act FB group	signers on act.ly "@RepHankJohnson RepJacksonLee: thanks for sponsoring #PatriotAct and FISA reform!" petition	signers on act.ly "@LamarSmithTX21 is willing to give up liberty for security. How un-American!" petition	signers on act.ly "@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #PatriotAct reform, please also sponsor H 3846!" petition	signers on act.ly "thanks Arlen Specter" petition	signers on act.ly "@RussFeingold and @SenDurbin, thanks" petition	signers on act.ly "I’m not a terrorist" petition	attendees for Facebook event (confirmed, maybe)	followers for @getfisaright
9/28, 12:30 p.m.	332	115	477								299
9/30 1:30 p.m.	448	178	597								333
10/1 1:30 p.m.	658	250	696								349
10/3, 1:30 a.m.	773	273	773								369
10/4, 8:30 p.m.	695	261	820				6			(100, 84)	375
10/5, 1 p.m.	687	257	845				34			(143,114)	389
10/6 11 a.m.	664	253	862				43			(188, 176)	396
10/6 5 p.m.	694	258	870				46			(197, 183)	400
10/6 7:30 p.m.	713	266	872				47			(202, 188)	405
10/7 1:30 a.m.	744	272	876				49		7	(210, 196)	405
10/7 1:00 PM	540	185	877				49		12	(211, 201)	409
10/7 4:30 PM	565	191	880				50		13	(211, 205)	408
10/7 7:00 PM	590	196	883				51	72	14	(210, 207)	411
10/8 1:30 PM	684	188	903				56	77	16	(216, 209)	418
10/8 8:00 PM	757	216	910				56	78	16		420
10/9 6:00 PM	758	236	926				56	80	16		422
10/11 3:00 PM	733	227	938				56	80	16		423
10/11 5:00 PM	733	227	939				56	80	16		425
10/12 6:00 PM	612	193	946				56	80	16		423
10/13 1:00 AM	616	193	945				56	80	16		422
10/15 12:00 PM	118	72	959				56	80	16		429
10/20: 2:00 PM	34	28	1026				56	84	16		427
10/21: 11:00 PM	81	56	1037				56	84	16		428
10/23 1:00 PM	84	54	1042								425
10/25 2:30 AM	94	60	1051								427
10/25 9:00 PM	92	58	1058	3		3					431
10/27 4:00 AM	107	50	1057	8		8			17		434
10/28 3:30 AM	111	47	1071	9		9			17		438
10/29 8:30 PM	104	46	1082	9		9					445
11/2 12:00 AM	185	65	1099	9		9					458
11/4 10:45	196	80	1109	11		11			20		470
11/4 2:45	274	107	1108	11	14	11			20		473
11/4 4:00	315	115	1108	11	15	11			20		474
11/5 9:30 AM	359	130	1096	11	16	11			20		474
11/5 12:30 PM	433	145	1091	11	17	11			20		477
11/5 1:45 PM	489	151
11/5 2:00 PM	493	151
11/5 2:15 PM	497	151
11/5 3:30 PM	525	161
11/5 3:45 PM	534	163
11/5 4:15 PM	560	174
11/5 6:30 PM	615	190
11/5 7:15 PM	620	191

* as reported by Wthashtag.

Historical statistics: number of members on myBO

For our first week, this was the most important number to track. The growth was consistenly over 40%/day, sometimes over 100%/day, until July 3, when the combination of the holiday weekend and email listserv problems slowed it substantially. We resumed growing by 1,000-2,000 people per day after the long weekend. Somewhere around1,000 and 2,000 members left the group on Wednesday, July 9, during and after the FISA vote.

Number of members (as reported by my.barackobama.com)

Methodology:

Numbers since June 30, 9 a.m., are as reported by my.barackobama.com from this page, which gives a member count for the group
Earlier numbers are estimates based on the statistics on early growth described here.

See Anti FISA bill group on my.barackobama.com reaches 2200 members by John Joseph Bachir on Obama Letdown Watch for more on the early growth of the group.

Date	Members (as of noon, EDT)	% change in the last day (approximate)
6/26	less than 200?
6/27	roughly 400	100%
6/28	around 1500	375%
6/29	around 2100	40%
6/30	4291	100%
7/1	7468	75%
7/2	10110	35%

Additional numbers (not necessarily at noon):

July 3: 16,000+ members, #1 Largest Group on myBO!
July 6: 19,000+ members
July 7: 20,000+ members

July 8: 22,000+ We're #1!!! Because of You! (myBO Top Ten List)

For other snapshots, please also see Statistics from July 11-August 4, the first week of statistics on the "Don't let our Constitution die" video, Statistics from August 2008., and Statistics from November/December 2008.

For other snapshots, please also see Statistics from July 11-August 4, the first week of statistics on the "Don't let our Constitution die" video, Statistics from August 2008., and Statistics from November/December 2008.

Markup Day 2 summary notes

Hwaisbren — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:27:10 CST

Structure notes

New thank you tweets
Baldwin act.ly? New act.ly
open letter

Link to next meeting

Let us know your preferred times 4 Tuesday's #patriotact organizing call: http://bit.ly/3X7rX

relevant tweets

RT @eff #patriotact watch: Smith (R-Tx) offers amendment 2 preserve "lone wolf" wiretapping power, Conyers explains why its unconstitutional

RT @eff: #patriotact watch: wobbly start--amndmnt by Smith 2 preserve unconstitutional "lone wolf" wiretap power barely beaten back, 15-15.

RT @eff #patriotact watch: Comm. recess 4 floor vote. Spanks 2 @RepAdamSchiff & @Quigleycampaign, Ds who voted aye on failed lone wolf amdmt

RT @eff: thx to Rep. Holt for intro'ing House version of JUSTICE Act to fix #PATRIOTact & repeal telco immunity! http://eff.org/r.5b2

RT @normative: Baldwin proposes enjoining prez to periodically review classification of FISA/NSL collection programs #patriotact

@RepTammyBaldwin congratulations on your amendment passing. Thanks for supporting the constitution! http://act.ly/Rh0 Pls RT #patriotact

@emptywheel: Tammy Baldwin calls for Admin to declassify programs relying on NSLs and other PATRIOT authorities. Yeah!!

RT @eff: Rep. Watt (D-Va): gov't must show *facts* to court if wants streams of email & web site addresses using "pen register" #patriotact

RT @EFF: #patriotact more good news, amendment from Rooney (R-FL) to weaken new privacy protections for phone and internet data loses 10-12

@eff: Woot, 2nd R amdmt 2 weaken protections against "pen register" surveillance of phone & internet data fails on voice vote #patriotact

RT @eff: Go Nadler! State secrecy "is greatest threat 2 liberty @ present", used as "magic incantation" by gov 2 hide wrongdoing #patriotact

RT @normative: House Judiciary approves (reasonably good) #patriotact reform 16-10

Nice! RT @eff: #patriotact watch: A BIG PATRIOT WIN! House Judic. Comm. recommends PATRIOT reform bill 2 floor w/ most major reforms intact

RT@ eff: #patriotact watch: ANOTHER BIG WIN! HJC. favorably reports the State Secrets reform bill to the House floor, 18 to 12! Woot! #p2

Strategy and priorities

Ymorris — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:38:44 CST

;

	Work in progress. Initial proposal for 2009 by Jon, December 6-9; most recent major update, January 21. (Goals updated Feb 10, minor updates April 27) Please see the 2009 Strategy Backgrounder for more information, including a brief history, and more about our strengths and challenges. As usual, there are discussion threads at the bottom of the page. Feedback, please!

Work in progress. Initial proposal for 2009 by Jon, December 6-9; most recent major update, January 21. (Goals updated Feb 10, minor updates April 27)

Please see the 2009 Strategy Backgrounder for more information, including a brief history, and more about our strengths and challenges.

As usual, there are discussion threads at the bottom of the page. Feedback, please!

Overview

Situation

Suits by the ACLU and EFF mean that telecom immunity has not yet come into force. See ? for the most recent legal roundup.
The Obama administrations actions and appointments in the first 100 days told us a lot about their intentions. As of late April, the new DOJ has published a series of legal memos from 2001-2004 revealing the shoddy legal framework and hinting at the extent of abuses, but in the courts has consistently backed the Bush Administration's positions and argued for a strong "state secrets" privilege. It's increasingly clear that it will take major grassroots activism to change anything.
The Liberty and Security coalition's Recommendations for the Next Administration and Congress, EFF’s What Obama Can and Should do to Stop Telecom Immunity, ACLU's transition plan, and CDT's Reform of the National Security Surveillance Laws and Procedures all have more.
With sections of the PATRIOT Act expiring at the end of the year unless extended, expect Congressional debate of wiretapping in the fall if not earlier. In March, a dozen Republican congressmen introduced leglislation to extend the clauses, and Senator Russ Feingold told one of our members that he's planning on introducing reform legislation in a few weeks if the Obama administration doesn't act first.

See the in-progress 2009 FISA Calender for an overview of the likely events of the year.

Get FISA Right's goals

What does it mean to "get FISA right"?, by Jim Burrows on the Get FISA Right blog, has some principles for changes we'd like to see. Our specific goals for 2009:

Obama living up to his campaign promises: acting against immunity, respecting privacy and the rule of law
Significant change in public opinion to the point where there's strong evidence that the vast majority of Americans (60%+) oppose continuing the "national surveillance state" approach to providing the illusion of security
Congressional action: sunset PATRIOT Act secs 206 and 215, FISA reform undoing damage from 2008 FAA, begin drafting "repeal/reform" legislation.

2010 goal: repeal PATRIOT Act, replacing it with legislation that better protects civil liberties and national security

More details on challenges (and opportunities) for anti-FISA forces and Get FISA Right's strengths and challenges in the Strategy backgrounder.

Strategy summary

January - May lay groundwork (communications, reconnect with existing members, Ideas for Change and Ask the President competitions, resume services dialog with President Obama, reach out to potential allies, improve diversity ...)

During the "first 100 days": remain a group of Obama supporters and continue our conversation with him attempting to influence his initial executive actions. Key asks:

stay immunity lawsuits until after the Inspectors' General report in July
comply with FISA and other legislation (including the warrant requirements) and clarify that he will not assert "Article II" power
defer bulk surveillance of Americans, even though it has been authorized by the FAA

May/June: decide on our longer-term organization (partisan or non-partisan? merge with an existing organization? etc.)

July-end of year: pressure Congress and Obama; with sections of the PATRIOT Act expiring at the end of the year, this is the most likely situation for legislative action.

Strategy details

January - May Prepare the groundwork during the first half of the year put sustainable communications into place -- see 2009 Communications channels for current thinking. test out during January and revise reconnect with members on MyBO. begin awareness work with videos/ads working with SaysMe.tv -- video and media release here work to ensure that a FISA-related idea is in the top 10 in the second round of the Ideas for Change competition. Update: we finished #5. Time to celebrate has more. make the wiki a valuable shared resource for anti-FISA activists in general, to improve information sharing and coordination. increase real-world focus by supporting in-person actions at the Inauguration (Ben Masel's Stop Government Spying, Jim Cook's pro-constitution rally) reach out to potential allies, e.g. DREAM Activists, Democrats.com, politicians, media

January - May

Prepare the groundwork during the first half of the year

put sustainable communications into place -- see 2009 Communications channels for current thinking. test out during January and revise
reconnect with members on MyBO.
begin awareness work with videos/ads working with SaysMe.tv -- video and media release here
work to ensure that a FISA-related idea is in the top 10 in the second round of the Ideas for Change competition. *Update*: we finished #5. Time to celebrate has more.
make the wiki a valuable shared resource for anti-FISA activists in general, to improve information sharing and coordination.
increase real-world focus by supporting in-person actions at the Inauguration (Ben Masel's Stop Government Spying, Jim Cook's pro-constitution rally)
reach out to potential allies, e.g. DREAM Activists, Democrats.com, politicians, media

First 100 days

Remain a partisan group of Obama supporters (Jon's posts here discuss why). *Update*: does the opportunity of partnering with a 501(c)3 in Ideas for Change advance this schedule?

resume our conversation with Obama and ask him to follow through on his campaign promises. As a group of supporters who worked to elect him, we're in a unique position to continue our conversation with him. Key asks: *Update*: presented in-person to whitehouse.gov blogger Macon Phillips at a National Press Club event

stay immunity lawsuits until after the Inspectors' General report in July (see What Obama Can and Should do to Stop Telecom Immunity)
comply with FISA and other legislation (including the warrant requirements) and clarify that he will not assert "Article II" power
defer bulk surveillance of Americans, even though it has been authorized by the FAA

Current assumption: while we'll support other activist campaigns who are putting pressure on Congress during this time-frame, we're most leveraged in direct interaction with Obama.

continue to focus on wikis and social networks (Facebook, MySpace, and elsewhere in addition to MyBO) and to emphasize this as a key part of our framing -- and interactions with politicians and other activists.

broaden outreach to become more inclusive

reach out to youth activists, immigration organizations, milbloggers, libertarians and ask for their suggestions on how we might engage with their communities
using the Ideas for Change competition to kickstart our MySpace presence
create a presence on other social networks as well

May - July

Note: things are a lot sketchier from this point on; we'll need to reevaluate based on our successes and difficulties over the first few months of the year.

decide on our organization for the rest of the year. Do we remain a separate entity or merge with an existing group? Do we remain partisan or move in a non-partisan direction? What's our governance structure?
get decisions nailed down and new structures in place by June 26, our first birthday
set strategy in place for the rest of the year

August - December

broad awareness work (hopefully in conjunction with other organizations who actually have budgets!)
continue interactions with Obama
pressure Congress as part of PATRIOT Act debate
draft model FISA/PATRIOT Act legislation to be introduced in 2010

Fall 2009 open letter to Obama

JonPincus — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:17:51 CST

DRAFT! WORK IN PROGRESS!

November 4: We've moved the draft into a Google Doc for the time being. Once the time's right, we'll post it on our blog, ask other bloggers to repost it, and set up a petition site to let people sign on. Our goal here is two-fold: to pressure the Obama Administration, and to get the media to cover the story. Thanks to Sally, Nancy, Lois, Harry, Peter, Craig, Derrick, g, Sharon, Joan, Linda, Dawn, and Jim for feedback so far. Please share your perspectives in the threads at the bottom of the page or on the blog! -- Jon

Harry's Parking Lot

Hwaisbren — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:02:20 CST

	This page is the location where Harry begins planning for future projects and generally lays out his thoughts not necessarily related to current priorities. Furthermore, it will act as a hub to coordinate communication with others through designated "parking spaces". These spaces will facilitate efficient discussions in which groups can much more easily stay on the same page.

This page is the location where Harry begins planning for future projects and generally lays out his thoughts not necessarily related to current priorities.

Furthermore, it will act as a hub to coordinate communication with others through designated "parking spaces". These spaces will facilitate efficient discussions in which groups can much more easily stay on the same page.

Topics to consider: Jeremy UStream discussion with Jon Parking space projects Diversified outreach ideologically and demographically diverse tweetup on #patriotact Sponsorship from #p2 and #tlot Crowdsource effort to contact as many as possible from the Tweet Progress directly with an invite @jdp23: ooh! how about a Twitterchat SERIES, w/Q&A from ACLU, EFF, Cato etc -- and maybe also Judgenap, Feingold,... @jdp23: (a) great source for info for jounalists,bloggers, etc. (b) a possible social media story (c) deepen engagement Campaign for Liberty outreach Judge Napolitano outreach DownsizeDC NRA Ron Paul Go through, and help build more of, a connection to Alan Grayson Julian Sanchez He told me that I will be the first to know when he makes progress on conservative/libertarian outreach Take advantage of his Glenn Greenwald connection New Facebook Campaign Engaging a more wide swath of our FB group through FB action designed to pick up even more followers Connect with ACLU presence on FB, and invite "friends of friends" to participate in our campaign and join the group Media Targeting MSNBC Marcy Wheeler is not liked by MSNBC producers, but is friends with David Shuster Marcy suggests Julian as somone who could get on Kevin Bankston spoke out against Obama administration on the patriot act on Olbermann Jane Hamsher has been getting on Rachel Maddow increasingly Blogosphere Firedoglake Marcy said she would link to us Marcy said she would contact Bowers about Sestak speaking out---much Open Left applicability I emailed Bowers about medium is the movement theiss and it's impact on me, and he sent back a very nice email in return Think Progress Greenwald Go through Julian potentially

Topics to consider:

Jeremy UStream discussion with Jon

Parking space projects

Diversified outreach

ideologically and demographically diverse tweetup on #patriotact

Sponsorship from #p2 and #tlot
Crowdsource effort to contact as many as possible from the Tweet Progress directly with an invite
@jdp23: ooh! how about a Twitterchat SERIES, w/Q&A from ACLU, EFF, Cato etc -- and maybe also Judgenap, Feingold,...
@jdp23: (a) great source for info for jounalists,bloggers, etc. (b) a possible social media story (c) deepen engagement

Campaign for Liberty outreach
Judge Napolitano outreach
DownsizeDC
NRA
Ron Paul

Go through, and help build more of, a connection to Alan Grayson

Julian Sanchez

He told me that I will be the first to know when he makes progress on conservative/libertarian outreach
Take advantage of his Glenn Greenwald connection

New Facebook Campaign

Engaging a more wide swath of our FB group through FB action designed to pick up even more followers
Connect with ACLU presence on FB, and invite "friends of friends" to participate in our campaign and join the group

Media Targeting

MSNBC

Marcy Wheeler is not liked by MSNBC producers, but is friends with David Shuster
Marcy suggests Julian as somone who could get on
Kevin Bankston spoke out against Obama administration on the patriot act on Olbermann
Jane Hamsher has been getting on Rachel Maddow increasingly

Blogosphere

Firedoglake

Marcy said she would link to us

Marcy said she would contact Bowers about Sestak speaking out---much Open Left applicability

I emailed Bowers about medium is the movement theiss and it's impact on me, and he sent back a very nice email in return

Think Progress
Greenwald

Go through Julian potentially

November 4 Open Letter Collaboration

Hwaisbren — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:24:06 CST

There is no abstract available for this page revision.

video embed testing

JonPincus — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:41:17 CST

There is no abstract available for this page revision.

Twitter activism training

JonPincus — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:30:11 CST

	Twitter activism and the Patriot Act Notes from Tuesday, November 3 training sessions Please join us in the Patriot Act Action Hub to apply some of these lessons! Wednesday November 4, 12:30 p.m. Eastern

Twitter activism and the Patriot Act
Notes from Tuesday, November 3 training sessions

Please join us in the Patriot Act Action Hub to apply some of these lessons!
Wednesday November 4, 12:30 p.m. Eastern

Resources

Following Twitter discussions about the Patriot Act on Twitter: Twazzup, Twubs, and Twitter search,
If you're new to Twitter -- our getting-started page

TweetCongress (directory of House and Senate members on Twitter)
Can petition tweets change the world? describes act.ly. here are some example petitions to Jane Harman, Hank Johnson, and Sheila Jackson-Lee
Accessible Twitter: web accessibility for Twitter
Patriot Act Action Hub
hashtags.org: a directory of various hashtags like #privacy and #patriotact. What the hashtag is another alternative.
Twitter clients: Rather than interacting with Twitter's somewhat-clunky web interface, many people prefer to use a "Twitter client" like Tweetdeck or Seesmic for a better user experience. Twitter's downloads page lists some of the most popular clients.
Tying your blog into Twitter: a post by Greg Pincus coming soon on The Happy Accident

Social Network Activism and the Future of Civil Liberties, discusses Twitter in the context of broader activism. Also posted on Pam's House Blend.

Detailed notes

Patriot Act & FISA Social Network Activism Training (11/03/2009)

Original notes by Harry Waisbren, edited by Jon Pincus
Note from Jon: the tweets on the #patriotact hashtag were included in the the chat;
I've left them in the notes because I think they help convey the feel of Twitter activism

GetFISARight:
Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern -- please join us! #privacy

PrivacyCampDC:
RT @GetFISARight: Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern -- please join us! #privacy

ahulse:
RT @GetFISARight: Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern -- please join us! #privacy

jdp23:
RT @GetFISARight: Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern - please join us! http://is.gd/4Lo5t #p2

HarryWaisbren:
RT @GetFISARight: Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 am Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern - please join us! http://is.gd/4Lo5t #tlot

ColinCurtisKS:
RT @GetFISARight: Twitter #patriotact activism training starting at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern - please join us! http://is.gd/4Lo5t #p2

GetFISARight:
the page once again for the #patriotact training: http://is.gd/4Lo5t

Intro

So far on the call, Gerald from Epic, Becky from Government Accountability Project, Deborah from Privacy Activism, Amy from BORDC, Jon's brother Greg from The Happy Accident, Amy from Philadelphia, Korkie from Get FISA Right. Gerald said from his perspective what he wants to get out of this are information on getting your name out, pushing a message, and fundraising. Will not be discussing fundraising much, but getting the organization's name and messages out on the Patriot Act, it keeps broader frame in mind.

A bit about where Twitter fits into Patriot Act reauthorization debate. One thing we are trying to do is start up social network activsm complementary to all the other kinds of activism going on. most of the campaigns are email/phone based. All important, and we can complement it by getting out on scial networking and meeting other poeple, getting them inovvoled

Twitter's key advantages from an activism perspective:

1) It's very fast. Activism on twitter can take stories from nothing to major media in 24 hours. Successful examples include motrinmoms, #amazonfail, Moldovan pro-democracy demonstrator (only 60 twitter users in Moldova); all got substantial press. See the Twitter section of my selected writings on activism for these and more.

2) Twitter is a way of reaching diverse audiences -- people who have not been included in civil liberties activism we have been suing so far. Social network activism and the future of civil liberties discusses this more.

3) Twitter is also a great mechanism form communications even amongst ourselves. Question of how do you know wht is goign on. 14 groups issuing action alerts for patriot act, want to promote them to get the word out, but how do we track that? Follow the latest in legislative action and analysis.

4) Twitter is also increasingly becoming a place where we can give direct feedback to politicians. Lot of politicians have twitter account, and can contact htem directly. No guarantee they repsond, but takes little time and very public. Lots of transparency, and then it's viral. When you contact a poitician, all of your followers see you ahve done that.

We'll be talking about tools to make all of these more effective.

The #patriotact hashtag

A hashtag is a tool for organizing on twitter with pound sign. Very easy to search.

We're using #patriotact for topics related to Patriot Act. Lots of other tags related: #privacy, #cfpconf for the Computers Freedom and Privacy conference.

So one easy thing we are encouraging everyone to do, as you see stories related to patriot act, if you would be telling people about anyhow, make sure to use #patriotact hash tag when you tweet.

Jon: that way, you can use any kind of serach on twitter to see all the storeis on the #patriotact tag. For example

Twitter search: http://twitter.com/#search?q=patriotact
Twubs: http://twubs.com/patriotact
Twazzup: http://getfisaright.twazzup.com

http://getfisaright.twazzup.com is a custom search page put up by the SF based startup Twazzup which gets the tweets from #patriotact tag and related searches: "Patriot Act", "telco immunity". At the top there are the popular tweets, those that are the most retweeted. Below, a list of organiaitnos to follow. Most recent tweets from about 10 orgs. At one glance can see what's the most recent thing each of these organizations ahve said related to patriot act in last 48 hours.

BleuZ00m:
On the call: @GETFISARIGHT Twitter training. #patriotact #p2 Do you value your privacy?

On right hand side are "featured tweeters". We have GFR members in there, other people who have been blogging and wrtiing about this.

Below that on the right is the most popular links: what people have been tweeting the most.

Scroll down can see all the real time tweets and see who else is talking about this issue. one of the things this allows is you can follow up with folks like this indivdually. Often, if someone is retweeting GFR stuff we will thank them for the help. sometimes leads to a dialogue. A great way not only to get hte word out, but to engage

Greg: connections are important: if you just braodcast, not as good as conecting. Way to engage them. If you get htem interested they become an ally and a fan. If you feed information constantly, you do not build that.

Jeremy @ ACLU:
Can also watch Twubs that include multimedia content
http://twubs.com/patriotact
http://twubs.com/torture

Jon: Jeremy makes a good pont about twubs. similar idea of twazzup, making more senese on a topic of a particular tweet. Slightly different organizaiton, different strokes for differnet folks. one complicated part of twitter enviornment is there are a zillion different tools out there.

Amy: one thing I ahve done is I ahve added twitthis my browser this, and when I tweet an article I add a #p2 tag and will start adding #patriotact. It's very handy

Jon: a browser plugin you install or a tool bar thing?

Amy: tool where you get points and they offer to sell you crap. Just don't agree.

Jon: tools like Twazzup are really amazing. During unrest in Iran, were tens of thosands of tweets each day. Taht's where the value of a twubs or twazzup really shows through. can find out what's going on instnatly. As thigns ramps towards a hearing or activism heats up, using htese pages for dealing with rapid events. Also good if dealing iwth once a day. Look at it as a TV channel where I can see what's going on. Also good to come in and just see what others are saying

Jon: twitter lists are new funcitonality that has just come out, making this easier. we are setting something up for GFR adn will ahve more information soon, but not yet

Feedback to politicians

Letting people know what's going on is one thing, but taking energy and channeling it in a way to provide feedback is important. Just like in action alterts there is "phone you congressman", tweeting congressman is increasingly becoming an option

Tweet Congress is a directory of who's on Twitter
we also have lists of Senate and House Judiciary Committee members on Twitter and Facebook

So for example when the Justice Act and HR 3845 and 3846 were introduced, we immediately tweeted to congersspoeple thaknign them for sponsoring. Twitter is very polite environment, very nice compliment to loud and abrasive tone of so much activism. We can be loud and abrasive too, but it's a nice place to do the thankyou stuff

act.ly us a tool for twitter petitions. Written by Jim Giliam. See Nancy Scola's Can petition tweets change the world? for more. goal is to take these natural behaviors, do some more tracking with it to see who is tweeting. go to act.ly, can see which campaigns are catching fire

Some real successes with act.ly in other spaces, women in technology have used it it to put attention to conference organizers who are not having enough women (more here).When Feingold and Durbin introduced JUSTICE act we set up a petition to them, and we heard from someone in Feingold's office that after 30 tweets they noticed and thanked us. So it probably takes 30-50 to get on someone's radar, but after that it has a very concentrating effect. Here's some example act.ly petitions to Jane Harman, Hank Johnson and Sheila Jackson-Lee, and Arlen Specter

A nice thing about act.ly petition is all you ahve to do is retweet. Don't ahve to go to act.ly page. Here's one of our current ones: http://act.ly/R19 Jon: can sign in, click on the tweet button, or just tweet it from any browser. Notice I embedded #patriotact in the petition. When I tweet it, it lets people on that tag know someone else is tweeting this. it let's you follow how many people are doing this, mixed in with other things. On twazzup or twubs page, one of our act.ly's is in the most-tweeted list.

Jim Gilliam says the most effective act.ly campaigns are n driectly in response to events. At Obama's healthcare speech, when Joe Wilson shouted out "you lie", someone got up an act.ly petition very quickly asking him to apologize. As part of htat petition, directed peopel to a fundraising page, got a thousadn tweets in an hour and was great for fundraising.

They dynamic is, if someone sees just one person they are following tweeting something that's not as big a deal, but if others are tweeting that's a bigger deal. Esepcially if it's compresed in time

Jeremy @ ACLU:
and now there's @TheJusticeDept

Brons:
@RepJaneHarman thanks for sponsoring #patriotact reform, please also sponsor H 3846! (Please RT) http://act.ly/R1a

GetFISARight:
@RepHankJohnson @RepJacksonLee: thanks for sponsoring #patriotact and FISA reform! (Please RT) http://is.gd/4Mbcn

act.ly is far from perfect. Can't use it if you are trying to pressure multpile people simultaenously, have to set up a whole bunch of different petitions. ideally, would like to say "my zip code is ___" take me to my reps page. Infrastructure doens't exist yet. There is a site, tweetcongerss, with info from all the congresspeople on twitter. No smooth interfact for it, but that will come.

Amy: I think OFA has a page for that. How about I lookf or that and send it to you?

Jon: that'd be great

Jeremy @ ACLU:
notes pushed me up ... @TheJusticeDept is on Twitter now which would be good for Act.ly

Question: have people found it take s aconcentrated amount of tweets in a period of time, or so many over a day? Coordinated effort in advance?

Jon: good question. When things happen more quickly on twitter, more likely to get viral. Compressing things into a shorter time is a lot more effective

Brons:
@RepHankJohnson @RepJacksonLee: thanks for sponsoring #patriotact and FISA reform! (Please RT) http://act.ly/R19

eff:
Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://eff.org/r.b9e

kenny:
RT @EFF: Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://eff.org/r.b9e

Integrating blogs

Jon: one other thing I want to briefly cover is the idea of tying your blog in. having things go out automaticallyf rom yoru blog to both twitter and FB. Also on the blog having a "tweet this" or "share this"

Greg: I think that being able to make things as easily shareable as possible is the best possible strategy. I use TweetMe and ShareThis applicaiton. Both embedded in every post that goes up. sometimes people do share and tweet, don't know who will do it, but want to make it as easy as possible for them. I could write something up about that.

Jon: does any of your organizations have good practices for this that you would like to share iwth others? I think between the range of groups here there are a ton of great things going on.

Amy: one thing I found about connecting twitter to FB is it can have negative effects that you need to be careful of.

Jon: correct, think it's a huge mistake to couple tiwtter to FB feed. Waht I'm saying is slightly different, want blog posts in general to go out form yoru org's account on twitter and org's account on FB

Jon: your point is also a good one. The way people talk on twitter is very different than FB. danah boyd has a great essay on the two different kind of statuses. Whie it's tempitng ot say "i'll jsut make this easier and cross over" you typically don't want to do that

Amy: case in point, young campaign manager tweeted out personal things, showed up on congressioanl apge. Wildly inappropriate, and I dinged the candidate about htat

MikeRiggs:
RT: @EFF: Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://is.gd/4Mbvh

ahulse:
RT @EFF: Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://eff.org/r.b9e

Brons:
RT @eff: Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://eff.org/r.b9e

Amy: I'm going to play around with my list, see if that's a way to notify eachother. Just started doing it, keeping it private for now, have a lot of republicans following me, selectively moving ina dn blocking them, need to be careful. Do it and report back.

Jon: great, thanks Amy.

Amy: are you going to send us the weblinks to follow for tomorrow.

drjonboyg:
RT: @EFF: Important vote in Congress on the #patriotact reform soon! If your Rep is on the list, contact them today! http://is.gd/4Mbvh

Wednesday's tweetchat during the markup

Tomorrow, 12:30 PM EST, is the much anticipated markup of H.R. 3845, the “USA PATRIOT Amendments Act of 2009“. The event will be webcasted and we will be holding a live “tweetchat” in our Patriot Act Action Hub to aggregate any coverage and to facilitate acting upon what happens.

http://get-fisa-right.wetpaint.com/page/Patriot+Act+Action+Hub

Jim: last time we did that we filled up the CiL. Might want to make more people panelists.

Jon: good suggestion

Jeremy @ ACLU:
or maybe use USTream has little stronger "chat" platform

jon:
good point jeremy

Blogger Resources for HJC Patriot Act & FISA reform

Hwaisbren — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:47:30 CST

	Reps. John Conyers, Jerrold Nadler, and Bobby Scott have introduced two important bills directly engaging Patriot Act and FISA reform (HR 3845 and 3846). This page will be used to aggregate resources for bloggers to cover news and action campaigns.

Reps. John Conyers, Jerrold Nadler, and Bobby Scott have introduced two important bills directly engaging Patriot Act and FISA reform (HR 3845 and 3846).

This page will be used to aggregate resources for bloggers to cover news and action campaigns.

Our next tweetchat is Wednesday, November 4, 12:30 p.m EST during the Patriot Amendment Act markup. Please join us in the Patriot Act Action Hub during (materials to blog about it are below)

If you have any questions or comments about this tweetchat, please contact Harry at hwaisbren@gmail.com

Tweetchat description	Blogger coverage suggestions
While following the webcast of the much anticipated markup of H.R. 3845, the “USA PATRIOT Amendments Act of 2009, we will be holding a live “tweetchat” in our Patriot Act Action Hub to aggregate any coverage and to facilitate acting upon what happens. During this tweetchat, you will find the latest on what is going on at the hearing as well as what others are saying about it on twitter (everything tweeted to #patriotact will show up in the chat). However, we encourage those on twitter and not on it alike to comment directly into the chat room, as our goal is to foster as much conversation and collective action in response as we can. No matter what happens tomorrow, we want to help spur “flash actions” via Twitter and other new media services in response.	We are encouraging bloggers to write about the markup and help promote our tweetchat by linking to our Patriot Act Action Hub However, this tweetchat is distributed, and bloggers can also embed the chatroom itself into blog posts. Below you'll find the embed code: <iframe src="http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=4ac261881a/height=400/width=400" scrolling="no" height="400px" width="400px" frameBorder ="0" ><a href="http://www.coveritlive.com/mobile.php?option=com_mobile&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=4ac261881a" >HJC Patriot Amendment Act Markup Tweetchat</a></iframe>

Tweetchat description

Blogger coverage suggestions

While following the webcast of the much anticipated markup of H.R. 3845, the “USA PATRIOT Amendments Act of 2009, we will be holding a live “tweetchat” in our Patriot Act Action Hub to aggregate any coverage and to facilitate acting upon what happens.

During this tweetchat, you will find the latest on what is going on at the hearing as well as what others are saying about it on twitter (everything tweeted to #patriotact will show up in the chat).

However, we encourage those on twitter and not on it alike to comment directly into the chat room, as our goal is to foster as much conversation and collective action in response as we can.
No matter what happens tomorrow, we want to help spur “flash actions” via Twitter and other new media services in response.

We are encouraging bloggers to write about the markup and help promote our tweetchat by linking to our Patriot Act Action Hub

However, this tweetchat is distributed, and bloggers can also embed the chatroom itself into blog posts. Below you'll find the embed code:

<iframe src="http://www.coveritlive.com/index2.php/option=com_altcaster/task=viewaltcast/altcast_code=4ac261881a/height=400/width=400" scrolling="no" height="400px" width="400px" frameBorder ="0" ><a href="http://www.coveritlive.com/mobile.php?option=com_mobile&task=viewaltcast&altcast_code=4ac261881a" >HJC Patriot Amendment Act Markup Tweetchat</a></iframe>

Summary of the the bills:

The USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009 (HR 3845 bill pdf via EFF): Like Sen. Feingold’s JUSTICE Act, this bill provides a substantial number of new checks and balances to curb the government’s spying powers under the Patriot Act.	The FISA Amendment Act of 2009 (HR 3846 bill pdf via EFF): This bill is directed at reforming last year’s FISA Amendments Act (FAA), which broadly expanded the government’s authority to wiretap Americans without warrants. Even worse, the FAA did this by granting immunity to telecommunications companies who broke the law through assisting in the NSA’s warrantless wiretapping program. Fortunately, this bill repeals the FAA's telco immunity provision Very importantly, this bill prohibits the "bulk collection" of Americans' emails and phone calls amidst many other reforms For more details, EFF has provided a pdf section by section analysis.

The USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009 (HR 3845 bill pdf via EFF):

Like Sen. Feingold’s JUSTICE Act, this bill provides a substantial number of new checks and balances to curb the government’s spying powers under the Patriot Act.

The FISA Amendment Act of 2009 (HR 3846 bill pdf via EFF):

This bill is directed at reforming last year’s FISA Amendments Act (FAA), which broadly expanded the government’s authority to wiretap Americans without warrants.
Even worse, the FAA did this by granting immunity to telecommunications companies who broke the law through assisting in the NSA’s warrantless wiretapping program.
Fortunately, this bill repeals the FAA's telco immunity provision
Very importantly, this bill prohibits the "bulk collection" of Americans' emails and phone calls amidst many other reforms
For more details, EFF has provided a pdf section by section analysis.

Resource: EFF's analysis of HR 3845 and HR 3846

Summary of ongoing campaigns to pass the bills:

The Patriot Act Action Hub a central hub for actions and news items during the Patriot Act reauthorization debate.

The next major action in the House is the Judiciary Committee markup of Patriot Act and FISA reform legislation, expected during the week of November 2. The Senate floor discussion has not yet been scheduled.

Below you will find details of our ongoing campaigns, a news roundup, and other available resources:

Ongoing Campaigns Tweet from our Tweeting points Take ACLU action: Ask your representative to co-sponsor the USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009. Help collaboratively write our new open letter Write a blog post using our blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform Join our Facebook status campaign Help craft our "narrative in progress" Send a Letter to the Editor using our template	News Roundup The Center for Democracy and Technology discusses how the House Patriot Act bill draws broad support on account of National Security Letter fix: Michael Anne Conley posts about how mental health privacy is at risk Marcy Wheeler takes on Eric Holder’s state secrets invocation Glenn Greenwald writes about how Obama seeks to block wiretap suit through state secrets provision Jon Pincus posts on social network activism and the future of civil liberties Marcy Wheeler discusses the “investigations into people who have nothing to do with terrorism” Marcy Wheeler posts on "get democrats to cave on Patriot" hearing Defend Civil Rights post at Care2 EFF explains the two new surveillance bills	Other Resources Get FISA Right blog Blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform HJC Tweet Construction Page List of House Judiciary Committee members Twitter and Facebook accounts Instructions for Twitter and getting-started info

Ongoing Campaigns

Tweet from our Tweeting points
Take ACLU action: Ask your representative to co-sponsor the USA Patriot Amendments Act of 2009.
Help collaboratively write our new open letter
Write a blog post using our blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform
Join our Facebook status campaign
Help craft our "narrative in progress"
Send a Letter to the Editor using our template

News Roundup

The Center for Democracy and Technology discusses how the House Patriot Act bill draws broad support on account of National Security Letter fix:
Michael Anne Conley posts about how mental health privacy is at risk
Marcy Wheeler takes on Eric Holder’s state secrets invocation
Glenn Greenwald writes about how Obama seeks to block wiretap suit through state secrets provision
Jon Pincus posts on social network activism and the future of civil liberties
Marcy Wheeler discusses the “investigations into people who have nothing to do with terrorism”
Marcy Wheeler posts on "get democrats to cave on Patriot" hearing
Defend Civil Rights post at Care2
EFF explains the two new surveillance bills

Other Resources

Get FISA Right blog
Blogger Template for HJC Patriot Act and FISA Reform
HJC Tweet Construction Page
List of House Judiciary Committee members Twitter and Facebook accounts
Instructions for Twitter and getting-started info

Facebook and Twitter accounts of the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee:

HJC Member	Facebook Account	Twitter Account
Chairman John Conyers
Rep. Howard Berman	Howard Berman supporter page
Rep. Rick Boucher	Rick Boucher supporter page
Rep. Jerrold Nadler
Rep. Bobby Scott
Rep. Mel Watt
Rep. Zoe Lofgren	Zoe Lofgren supporter page
Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee	Sheila Jackson Lee supporter page	@RepJacksonLee
Rep. Maxine Waters	Maxine Waters supporter page	@MaxineWaters
Rep. Bill Delahunt
Rep. Robert Wexler	Robert Wexler supporter page
Rep. Steve Cohen	Steve Cohen supporter page
Rep. Hank Johnson	Hank Johnson supporter page	@RepHankJohnson
Rep. Pedro Pierliusi	Pedro Pierliusi supporter page	@PedroPierliusi
Rep. Mike Quigley	Mike Quigley fan page	@Quigleycampaign (campaign account)
Rep. Luis Gutierrez	Luis Gutierrez supporter page
Rep. Brad Sherman	Brad Sherman supporter page	@BradSherman
Rep. Tammy Baldwin	Tammy Baldwin fan page	@RepTammyBaldwin
Rep. Charles Gonzales
Rep. Anthony Weiner	Anthony Weiner supporter page	@anthonyweiner
Rep. Adam Schiff	Adam Schiff fan page	@RepAdamSchiff (no tweets)
Rep. Linda Sanchez	Linda Sanchez supporter page
Rep. Debra Wasserman-Schultz
Rep. Dan Maffei	Dan Maffei supporter page	@DaMaffei (no tweets)

About Get FISA Right:

The "Senator Obama, Please Get FISA Right" MyBo group started organically before a group of volunteers helped it go viral in 2008. Bloggers were undoubtedly instrumental in that effort through their writing----and we need your help again today!

As the MyBo group gained a large following, we used a wiki/collaborative process to create an open letter to Obama. A vast amount of blog coverage begot MSM coverage, and in unprecedented fashion Obama responded to the group both on MyBo and on the Huffington Post. We lost the legislative battle--and the content of Obama's response was not what we were hoping for--but we were successful at helping change the national debate, attaining Obama's attention, and successfully opening up a direct line of communication with him.

Now, with PATRIOT Act and FISA reform coming up, many of us are back and ready to expand upon last summers' successes. Please join us Organizing for America, Facebook, MySpace, Twitter, and Wetpaint.

November 2 call key takeaways notes

Hwaisbren — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:40:49 CST

November 2 call page

November 2 call chat log

On the call

brandon from ARL, Shahid from BORDC, Soren, Harry, Jon, Amy, Korkie, Mark, Rebecca, Jim

Legislative situation

GetFISARight:

mini-update on the #patriotact legislative situation: multiple bills in the house and in the senate. http://is.gd/4LnGQ

Monday November 2, 200912:50GetFISARight

12:53

[Comment From jon jon:]

hi there Harry. here's the mini-update on the legislative situation:

- HJC scheduled to mark up HR 3845 (Conyers/Nadler/Scott) this Wednesday, 12:30 PM Eastern.
- Reyes, Hastings, and Rupperburger have introdced HR 3969 into HPSCI; it supposedly largely mirrors the SJC bill but may be weaker in some areas.
In the Senate, in addition to the amended Leahy/Feinstein SJC bill (S. 1692), there’s also a Sessions/Lieberman/Bond (S. 2236) bill that would reauthorize with no additional safeguards. boo. floor schedule still unclear.

Monday November 2, 200912:53jon

Jon: markup scheduled for htis wedsneday. Same time, new bill introduced into house committee on intelligence. Much weaker.

Jon: supposedly mirrors bill that went through SJC, but Brnadon is saying library protections are absent
Brandon: in the senate a bit about libraries stayed in. Cut back from waht Leahy introduced. In Reyes bill it's not.

Brandon: sort of a canary int he mind. Might be even worse than SJC
Jon: Sessions in the senate along with Lieberman and Bond introduced a billf or straight reauthroization, no additional protections
Jon: looking at all this going on, we still have a ways to go.

Jon: I don't know what the overalll civil liberties activism strategy for all of this is. Still at stage where we are trying ot amke as storng a showing as we can in thep lace we are strongest, which is HJC.

Tweet Chats

jon:

Harry: Jon, you made a great point about the imortance of Wednesday. we're transitioning for the longer-term and digging in our heels. let's focus on something bigger for the House hearing

Monday November 2, 20091:16jon

1:17

jon:

Harry: with the SJC hearing, it was mostly discussion; what we'll be adding is for people to get active during the call -- we'll be doing a lot more of this going forward

Jon: quick informal poll. Hearing is 12:30 est, how many poeple will have at least a few mintues to drop by at some point during the hearing?

Jon: last time it was things like, Specter gave a particularly impassioned speech and we all sent a thank you to him

Monday November 2, 20091:17HarryWaisbren

1:18	HarryWaisbren: Korkie: couple hours Jim: couple hours Amy: couple hours Harry: most of it

Jon: probably get a little time of chunk of people. If we can get 30ish people to be taking action, 50-100 would be better, but even 30 is very noticeable

Jon: look at other things we can do at FB

jon:

Harry describing Tweetchats ... similar to this organization, also incorporating more people on Twitter. you can enable tweets from individual people or hashtags getting incorporated into the chat log

Monday November 2, 20091:40jon

1:41

jon:

the point is to make it hte central place for people to go not only for news on the hearing, but also for waht they can do about it. lots of potential for flash actions if we can create a hug

Monday November 2, 20091:41jon

1:42

jon:

it's also a great place to reach out to more diverse constituencies -- ideologically and demographically. we've talked a lot about libertarians; it's been tough so far ... on Twitter, we can easily engage people with low time cost

Monday November 2, 20091:42jon

1:42

jon:

again, emphasizing the diversity aspect -- so many people outside of the main stream of activism. as a student activist, i'm one -- i was completely disengaged. twitter can dramatically increase our potential.

Jon: following that, bringing someone in like Shahid or Michelle, Kevin Bankston, domain experts.

Jon: a couple of really effective chats, one is journ chats, monday evenings. Have 100ish people going on simtuanleously.

Jon: my borhter moderate kidlit chats. Surprising, but get mullptke conversations simultaneously in this medium. Helps build connections and broaden the networks.

Jon: important thing of using the cover it live chatrom like we are here, people not using twitter can partiicpat,e makies it much more inclusive

Jim: for weds, if we are going to be tweeting out, are there conservative libertiaran hashtags that we hsould use to send out invitaitons to come to our hashtag?

Jon: it's a great point. The key hashtags for this are #patriotact, the progressive hashtags at #p2, #topprog, #rebelleft. conservative tags are #tcot, #sgp (smart girl politics), #tlot, and #libertarian.

Jon: noticed that alot of gorups like campaign for liberty, jduge napolitiano, they dont' seem to be using a lot of hashtgas in partiuclar. Dont' know how rich the tag community is

Jon: someone have time to do some scanning for this. Easiest thign to do is start with our patriot act twazzup page, see who is tweeting, whta tags they are using.

Jon: ok, have a schedule. One path out at 12:30 PM est, next 8 hours later, and then a third batch out as early as possible weds morning

Jon: somethign I hope others realize, si I have sutudies social entwork activism a lot, and we are on the cutting edge here. It's great we are ocmign up with these procedures, becasue we have an organizing advantage. So rare, and we should take full advantage of it

Media and blogger outreach

Jon: simple message, like say to Greenwald and to Marcy Wheelr, "please let people know about our online actiivsm during the amrkup
Jon: it's a good point, FDL has been very supportive. In general, most of prog blogosphere is focused on healthcare right now.

Jim: oen point about Glenn, he hasn't plugged in with us. That's one that might be worht pushign on a little
Amy mentions Digby
Jim: going through the semianl at FDL might offer oportunity to illustrate that

Harry: we put tweet chat info in blogger resource page, embed on their post

Jon: marcy will probably be live blogging. Ask her to embed our chat in the page.

Jon: looking btw semianl and marcy's stuff on emptywheel, both Json and I have noticed it's gotten no traction on the seminal

Jon: Marcy's posts are getting decent, not exceptionsal traction int eh comments. Not like it was at height of FISA things

Jon: she is just so much more highly visible

Harry: what about Juilan

Korkie: and Pam's site
Jon: i'll ask Pam about that too

Jon: I like this. Use this Wds are proof point. Reach out beforehand, Marcy, Julian, Pam, (if Marcy can't do it we'll get something on the seminal)

Other interrelated initiatives

Online activism training

Jon Pincus says: let's not describe it as "privacy coalition trainings" ... instead, "patriot act social network activism training" or something like that.
Jon: most of these gorups haven't done much on social netwroks in general. Will try to do our first coupel fo quick sessions on twitter tomorrow, with idea that if we get people invovled tomorrow can get them involved in the Weds hearing
Jon: probably just a half hour long

Sharing stories

Jon: example I was thinking of, there is a blog post floating around of a former police officer who was just going thorugh airport secondary seradescribing first hand expeirence of why this is an ineffective search.
Brandon: as I udnrestand it, these gag orders don't allow a recipiient to speak to their congresspeorson. That's one of hte argumetns we've used when tlakign to Reps, their constiutents can't come to them and say they have received one of these orders. Only one they can tell is thier atttonrey.

BORDC

Shahid: two rounds of this, might be familiar with earlier round. Series of local resolutions, version 2.0 wihtin last couple weeks is a series of binding, enforcable ordinances that would not only experss a certain view for federal policy but actual shift hte legal regime constraning local law encofrcement and domestic efforts....
Shahid: way to think of it, is opporutnity for local legislators to peel back local partiicpaiton in federal surveilance isues. Doesn't do anything to curb federal power
Connecting online with in person
Shahid: one thing to back it up is while the ordinances don't limit federal authorities, what can limit is the conversation, getting back in to the public spotlight
Shahid: ordinances are avialalbe now and otureach to anyone who would participate in them
Shahid: getting legislation through city council. Unaffiliated individuals acting indpendently can work with us. Standing by with resources.
Shahid: survielance ordinances hasn't gotten too much attention. Been on a few blogs, like David Swanson's.
Jon: from GFR's persepctive, last summer we did local work for platform committee eitngs. 6-8 local meetings. Infrastrucutre in place, see if poeple are still enthusiastic about it.
Shahid's email
Just to address one potentially lingering question (which you asked, but on which I flopped the answer) about the timeframe of our efforts, our materials are available for local supporters to proceed at their convenience -- but the opportunity to see concrete action in city councils may take longer than the limited time we have on PATRIOT reauth. Having said that, jurisdictions with supportive councilmembers may at least be able to formally introduce the ordinance in time. While short of enactment, even the mere introduction of legislation could offer some opportunities to gain visibility at the local and regional level for civil liberties concerns implicated by surveillance. We're currently doing research to identify supportive officeholders but aren't yet poised to proceed.

Before I dig in, I'd like to introduce you to my colleague, Amy (whom I've cc'd). She's our Associate Director and manages our web presence -- which may be useful as you approach your online actions on Wednesday. Please let us know what links to post, and we'll get them up on our blog, FB page and Twitter feed.

For your and your colleagues' reference, the ordinance limiting the powers of local police (re surveillance, profiling and immigration) is posted here. The other, relating to executive accountability for torture, is here. Both are posted on a hub page we've built that also includes a toolkit offering step-by-step guidance, as well as some other resources. Any help you can offer (in terms of sharing them with activists and organizers) would be deeply appreciated.

Finally, I especially appreciate your efforts on collecting stories about surveillance. Two pieces of information on that front:
The report I researched & wrote for my former employer, concerning data collection and interrogations at airports by Customs & Border Protection officials, is available at http://www.muslimadvocates.org/documents/Unreasonable_Intrusions_2009.pdf.
We at BORDC have a nascent database collecting further stories from a range of contexts, which I didn't mention on the call because it remains barely functional -- and only behind a registration wall, at that. (We've been hindered by development bottlenecks requiring help from a particular supporter who recently experienced some unfortunate health issues) Amy can get you a login, which should be helpful in terms of collecting further stories relating to domestic surveillance.

Not key, but note perhaps

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November 2 call chat log

Hwaisbren — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:07:45 CST

November 2 call page