November 19 call home page.

[Comment From JimB.JimB.: ]
Hi, Harry. And anyone else...


HarryWaisbren:
Hello to Jim and anyone else joining us for the call/following along in the online chat!


Jim Burrows:
Cool. For once Cover It Live didn't fight me.


[Comment From jdp23 jdp23: ]
hi all


jdp23:
harry, chip, jim, mark, jon, ...

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon from reserach library just joined in

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: posted on blog thread. Update from TPM, healthcare cloture vote is saturday. Vote to proceed, read aloud, debate not till after thanksgiving.

Jon: instinct last time was right. Shoot for htis brief hiatus next week seems as good a chance as any.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: Mark brought up point in blog thread---what's our ask?

Jon: key whitehouse staffer that we get it to the president, what do we say to them? 30 seconds to say exaclty waht you wnat him to do.


jdp23:
here's the phrasing from the blog:


jdp23:
Role Play: suppose I’m the key White House staffer who could get this to the President, and you have me on the phone right now. Staffer: “OK, your letter was called to my attention and I get that you’re 23,000 Obamamaniac community organizers, and you want more progressive stuff in the Patriot reauth, and you’re about to go viral. Fine. I work 24×7 for the President. You have 30 seconds to tell me what exactly you want him to do. That’s all the time I’ll get on this in the Oval.


jdp23:
what i said: I want him to support HR 3845 and 3846 (along with the addition of equivalent protections to the Senate Bill), to work with AG Holder to provide the information about Section 215 not just to Congress but to the American public as well.

HarryWaisbren:
Mark: what we want is not simply acknowledgement of our concerns. what we want is that legislation changed.

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon: way framed, president gets letter, lieks it, compelled by movement, what he wants. Letter is intention getter, stage 2 of specific ask.

Mark: I strongly recommend it

Jon: my expeince in these power based negotiations, is it's important to have a ask that frames the conversation going forwadr, drives the tmepo of what we're expecting in a concrete timeframe

HarryWaisbren:
Jim: issue with ask as stated, askign for specific legislation that has to do with last two weeks. what will it be next week?

Jim: worry that tying it to a specific piece

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: maybe bullet points are the key, specific legislation is the footnote after that.

HarryWaisbren:
Jim: say what we want. restircitons on 215s, NSLs and the like, as was proposed in JUSTICE act and these as examples

Jim: maybe advantage of using the justice given that it's an example.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: not do editing on the call. That's direction it needs to move in. Find out who will do editing path to get there.

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon: ARL endorsed justice act, is great, but there are some thigns better in other proposals too

HarryWaisbren:
Brnadon: look at CDT chart of proposals, cherry pick strongest. Describe in normal language. Footnote to act.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: CDT blog that shows house bill vs justice act


jdp23:
pointer to CDT blog: http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/2009/11/16/a-handy-patriot-act-cheat-sheet/

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon: think about priority, list in some order. NSLs got to be at the top. 215s. Lone wolf. Might erupt in unnecssary argument, but agree on top few. Transparency in the process.

Jon: think lone wolf. don't want to lose sneek and peak too.


[Comment From Amy Ringenbach Amy Ringenbach: ]
Handy Chart Tracks Proposed Amendments to #PatriotAct - Wired.com http://bit.ly/34790D


jdp23:
top issues: NSLs, 215, lone wolf, sneak and peak, transparent process


jdp23:
material support aspect

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon: material support concept. hasn't been in most of bilsl so far. For Arab Americans high priority, gotten attention recently.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: fact that we haven't thoguth about it shows lack of awareness on our part. Letter will be stronger if we mention that as well

HarryWaisbren:
Brandon: Rush Holt is key on it, have legislative champion there

Jon: that's really important

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: need to have reference for how people can find out more on each of these topics in place

Amy: we planned to drop in judiciously attributions

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: links in the letter themselves, that's great. If not, want to pear it with whatever site we point media/bloggers too.

JOn: detailed legal artilces, where peopel can find out more on these issues.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: that woudl be valuable for everyone joining in midstream.

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: can identify it as a bullet item on main blog post list.

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie just joined us

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: David Cole has been one of hte best historically. Deals extensively with mateiral support issue.


Amy Ringenbach:
Chip: please note the title of this book?

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: as colleagues build bullet points, share with us attributiosn so we can cross post htem.

Jon: know who is building the bullet points?

Jon: talkign about via bullet points agreed, what we just went over, NSls, 215, lone wolf, sneek and peak, mateiral support, and a transparent process


jdp23:
bullet points: NSLs, 215, lone wolf, sneak and peak, material support, transparent process

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: feel like what we need to complement the letter is a bibliogrpay page. Almost like a complementary formatting, organized by these, key posts for each one.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: companion document living on the web that people can go to.

Harry: part of media/blogger resources page

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: steps to relaunch on open letter

Jon: minor rewrok to get bullet points, crisp up ask

Jon: finalize it. get it to BORDC so they can post it. From last call, discussing osme way where peopel can sign on by clicking a web page without signing for OFA, BORDC offered to host. A site we point people to to sign.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: Jessica Pieklo on Care2 post it on petition site. large and complmeentary audience.

Jon: importnat to reach boht. People on Care2 not likey to be in our current audience.

Jon: finalize on Friday. Get ready over weekend. Launch Monday evening, or during the day on Monday

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: Afghanistan open letter being circulated

Harry: Monday night better for me

Amy: any time monday better for me

Brnadon: intuitively seems mornign is better, build time over the day.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: very much shooting for that is tuesday. Monday is prime pumping, teusady is launch and event, with idea of getting thigns to spark tuesday

HarryWaisbren:
Mark: need to be proactive in selected media. Someone if possible needs to call reporter at whatever newspaper and point them to look at such and such.

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: that's why I'm on the team

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: brainstorming---key people, rpeoters, bloggers, etc. Who is contacting them in various ways

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: also want to thinka bout who we are priming the pump with, starting to talk to now, let them know that we are softlauching modnay with laucnh event on tuesday

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: leave it at Monday evening

Amy: conflict on Monday in terms of competing news stories, is there will be HCR fallout on monday

Jon: we are coming in after that, bet we are making with teusday. points to doing it later in the day


Amy Ringenbach:
Jon: do we want to create a new group on OFA?

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: monday night have it available on BORDC. Care2. We want people to sgin onto OFA by joinign the group.

Jon: do we want to start a new group? Struck me that, if they say no, that's an itnersting story. Compares and contrasts behavior during the campaign. If they say yes, we have a new group to measure 'are more people interested now than then'.

HarryWaisbren:
Korkie: don't think we need permission. Maybe new OFA

Mark: you didn't used to. But tha'ts a long time ago

HarryWaisbren:
shoudl consider losing people power in current group

HarryWaisbren:
Mark: I put some stuff ont eh OFA GFR blog hoping that somebody would read it. 3 or 4 thingso n it a few months ago. I didn't get a single response

Jon: yeah, it's pretty dead

Harry: it isfamliar though for people who used to go on it

Jon: hearing keep it there. ok

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: FB, convince people to join the fix the FISA group

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: what we found with our polls before ist here is a chunk of peoel more liely to act on FB than somethign that sends email

Jon: chunk more on twitter than emila

Jon: plenty of peopel liekly to act on email

Jon: need to appeal to all basically

HarryWaisbren:
Chp: wouldn't be acting on FB if they click link on FB

Jon: non-FB action though. Guess I don't know how people can sign onto BORDC via FB

Amy: natonal legal council does that all the time

Korkie: I use FB for listing petitions i wnat people to sign

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: that leads to substantial falloff

Jon: FB is conceptually it's own enviornemtn. when you ask to follow it outside that enviornemtn, less likely to

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: can start by pointing peple to BORDC

Jim: in FB posting, can push them towads external site. remind them that group exists

Jon: not sayign joining hte group is signing, asking them to do two thigns. Cuts chancs they do either

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: loss is particularly accute wehn it coms to millenials more likely to spend time in social netwroking enviornments

HarryWaisbren:
point poeple to something on FB, widget

Jon: intersting idea

Harry: something like ask the president, widget that can go anywehre

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: if not for widget, hearing storng preference to point people to BORDC site

Jon: on twitter, lose 90% of people if trying to point them somewhere lese

Jon: more likely to RT than folow a link, much les foll and act

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: act.ly people can sgin by retweeting. completley within the RT, low overhead if using twitter client, natural thing to do

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: a lot of what we were doing in sept and oct was measuring our click through adn RT thorugh rates

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: statistically significant data set. Yeah, but hard to know. Published as social computing research. Extraodrinarily diverse data set.

Jon: large enough tod raw strong conclusion when getting numbers like this. Also consistnet iwht what everyone else reports

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: been studied less, but pretty sure there are similar dynaimcs on FB as well

Jon: people see link on FB, almsot no one links to it. look at summary and picture, could comment or like something based on that

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: i'm inclined to do an act.ly petition and push people to BORDC.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: twitter you can do both

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: RT beta now?

Jon: good question, do we want to do RT old or new style

Korkie: I hate new style

Jon: I do too

HarryWaisbren:

Korkie on new rt's: icon on twitter that automatically retweets. When it does, you can't put a comment in,

Jon: act.ly is petition system, can set up one directed by someone on twitter. gives you webpage to point people too, also have something oto embed inyoru blog. Poeple can sign on.

Jon: Jim Gilliam set it up, intentionally designed to be nonpartisan.

Jon: can see who signed on. Viral in that as people RT they wind up signing on

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: totally agree it isn't either or kind of thing


jdp23:
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbq9b2h_11gffk26gg

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: other aspect of hte laucnh on monday is blog and media

Jon: start with basic blog posts so we have those bases covered. Have a doc collecting these in.


Amy Ringenbach:
FYI: See the embedded link drive-to signup on the National Women's Legal Center,


Amy Ringenbach:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?v=app_2344061033&ref=profile&id=100000049519574#/nationalwomenslawcenter - is the link, see the box below the SMS flag on the left

HarryWaisbren:
blog post, execerpt, point people to sign on, possibly giving some history etc.

Harry/Amy GFR blog

OFA blog: Mark

Care2: Jessica

BORDC: Amy

Pam's house blend: Jon, cross post at seminal or ask Jason

HarryWaisbren:
Amy taking on seminal

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: perhaps ask Ben Mazel

Mark: i'm a huffington post reporter. In terms of making it a news story, if it's later next week I coudl do something

Jon: if it catches, legitimate story for Tuesday or Weds

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: reality catcher blog, got to top on digg

Jon: somebody approach Marcy to see fi she'll post on emptywheel

Harry: i'll email her

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: amnesty international

Mark: i'm in touchwt hi dawn from time to time

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: i'll put something up on DCCC

Jon: great starts on blog posts, continue, in google doc


jdp23:
google doc: http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dfbq9b2h_11gffk26gg

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: I don't get OFA strategy. Not start new group for fragmenting purposes. why not point to BORDC from wtihin

Jon: that's what I got. edited to clarify

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: when we list out how broad our coverage is, it's impressive.

HarryWaisbren:
http://get-fisa-right.wetpaint.com/page/Media+Contact+List

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: great stuff. Need to coordinate

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: RT from GFR, other poeple RT, increased GFR visibility

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: look around for other good contact for tweetchat

Jon: let ACLU, EFF that we're looking for content

Jon: ACLU of northern CA might have something

HarryWaisbren:
discuss twitvid idea, videos from webcam that goes immediatley into twitter form

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: interesting to see if you can get Marcy to get a twitvid.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: format, short intro about GFR. Open letter are sending.

Chip: I can be a resource on technical FISA issues. Substantive things that woudl be helpful to reinfore our leter. resfute myths that there ahve been no abuse. cluster of unitarye xecutive issues, inclduing links to 215, data mining, warrantles surveillance

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: needed to get technical about FISA admendments act


Amy Ringenbach:
Here is the new ACLU DotRights vid, posted today:


Amy Ringenbach:
Our @ACLU_NorCal affiliate launches Demand Your @dotRights! Video: http://dotrights.org/education - Blog of Rights: http://bit.ly/arFMK

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: depending on format, could do a 3-5 minute on each issue.

Mark: doens't need to be that long even, as resource

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: those were some of the thigns off the otp of my head. If you need aditional information off my side.

Chip: other elemnt is mission creep. 218, not up for renewal, blurred crimianl and foreign intelligence regime. effectively allowing the loewr than probable cause standard to infect normal criminal work.

Chip: partriot act power now being used more for domestic criminals than origianly terorrist aspect sold as


Amy Ringenbach:
Ah, to be able to do a Vulcan mind meld right now. Yes, indeed.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: one interesting thing to ahve Julian talk about is the medai enviornmetn. Coverage or not

Jon: he has managed to make a big showing there

Chip: unique platform. CATO can't affiliate iwth other gorups or lobbying, but he can make the case that it's nonpartisan issues. Crucial message need to be heard more braodly

HarryWaisbren:
Chip: nonpartisan in engative way. Obama and sensenbrenner preachign same message.


Amy Ringenbach:
Remember too that these Twitvids could well be stand-alone drops-in for Democracy Now, Rachel, Keith. perhaps even Dylan.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: make sure to set up an emai or blog thread ahead of time to let people know waht quesitons you will fee epopel are. roughly how long to spend on each area.

Jon: find out as we're talking to tohers beforehand other topics we want to include


Amy Ringenbach:
Jon, what's the path to 'You Stream"

HarryWaisbren:
Jim: I can help moderate

HarryWaisbren:
Jim: not for this one necessarily, but want to follow through on Ustream notion.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: do want moderators

Jon: trying to get patriot act hashtag to trend on twitter during tweetchat

Jon: trained about a dozen from privacy coaltion, hopefully some of them will be interested as well

Jon: chunk of this not just partisan, but information, so 501cs and orgnaizations themselves woudl feel safer about tweeting


Amy Ringenbach:
what's the initial blast?


Amy Ringenbach:
And thinking that we'll need to include both @GetFISARight and #patriotact, for tweetbacks here to the hub and trending the #patriotact..

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: feedback last time is we don't have anything yet, presumptuous to plan press call

Jon: take things as they come

Jon: invite journalists to come to the tweetchat. More compelling


Amy Ringenbach:
let's plan on a press conference as we reach 5,000 signess..


Amy Ringenbach:
we discussed this last week,, and thought we agreed on that scaling?

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: exciting, really impressive work getting here

HarryWaisbren:
for those with time, brainstomring media contacts


Amy Ringenbach:
Question about tweeting the OPen Letter to MOC.. as of the 16th, it totalled 183.

HarryWaisbren:
Jim: concenr about #patriotact tweets in chat room. If it trends and interweaving, don't we end up positive feedback loop

Jim: if people want to watch it, let them watch somewhere else

Jon: if it goes so much, need another service like twazzup or twubbs.

Jon: want thingb uild up in the hour, and then go much more after when they are fired up

HarryWaisbren:
Amy: Mark, Jim, I make template for blogs. standard ap langugae, customize it.


Amy Ringenbach:
Jumping off now, but I'll check back with you. Again, thank you All of you. You are flat-out amazing.

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: make GFR media account

Harry: here is the media contact list

http://get-fisa-right.wetpaint.com/page/Media+Contact+List


jdp23:
John Nichols: Harry (CC Chip)


jdp23:
Amy Goodman: do we have any contacts?


jdp23:
David Corn at mother jones -- need a news hook


jdp23:
Dan Froomkin


jdp23:
Martin Kaste, NPR -- Chip


Amy Ringenbach:
I'm lurking here, guys, as I await this other conf call. I have two contacts at DN.


jdp23:
what we need: a one-paragraph pitch. what's innovative and newsworthy? the fact that people in obama's site are once again reacting to him is one


jdp23:
the grassroots, cross-partisan alignment is newsworthy


jdp23:
(hi Amy)


jdp23:
the Patriot Act reauthorization debate is timely


jdp23:
Amy, will you have time to help on a very short media pitch


jdp23:
Bill Moyers: Chip


jdp23:
David Brancacio on PBS


Amy Ringenbach:
Yes. I can do that.


jdp23:
Harry: I like the idea of the focus on the NY Times


jdp23:
thanks!


jdp23:
Eric Lichtblau -- I can contact him


Amy Ringenbach:
I'm assuming this is to be timed for Tussday morning, once we launch the Open Letter itself, correct?


jdp23:
actually something in the shorter term, that we can start sending to people saying "here's where the story's coming up, starty paying attention"


jdp23:
Jim Lehrer -- Chip will contact


jdp23:
Bob Woodward


Amy Ringenbach:
Okay.. the press contacts you're listing right now are some of the big guns. 1. let's not reach too high, too fast. Agreed. This is grassroots build.


jdp23:
Nat Hentoff


jdp23:
good point amy


Amy Ringenbach:
And we need to plan to directly reach into big guns once we've reached the 5,000, 10,000 benchmarks, right?


jdp23:
(i just repeated it on the phone)


Amy Ringenbach:
Other wise, it'll be dismssed .. summarily.


Amy Ringenbach:
Trust me on this one, k, guys?


jdp23:
that said i've gotten very early coverage on some of these social network activism campaigns


jdp23:
Sarah Lai Stirland ... Jon to contact


Amy Ringenbach:
You have? whoa..


jdp23:
:-)


jdp23:
Jon Ward from Washington Times -- agreed during askt the president that this wasn't getting enough coverage.


jdp23:
Reason magazine -- Julian writes for them


Amy Ringenbach:
BTW.. curious FB handshake yesterday: Vincent Bugliosi requested that I become an FB friend. A contact, an asset we may be able to use down the road, in GFR context..

HarryWaisbren:
I'll make a new table on the medai contact list with these names and that makes it easy to aggreage our press coverage


jdp23:
if we want people to come to the launch on Tuesday, we need to contact them on Monday


jdp23:
Mike Cross-Barnette at Baltimore Sun -- Mark


Amy Ringenbach:
I have had, in the past, a reach into Jonathan Turley.. but it's not a lock..


jdp23:
worth a try!


Amy Ringenbach:
LATimes Steve Lopez.. he is an old friend.


jdp23:
wired threat level


jdp23:
can we get Kevin to connect us to Olbermann's producer?


jdp23:
harry: rachel maddow's producer is on Twitter.


Amy Ringenbach:
And Mike Stark too.. He's definitely on the same page as wel all are. (you may have seen his jaw-dropping 'get' yesterday about Vitter.) And he has helped me in the past.


jdp23:
ask Baratunde if he'll do a post on it


jdp23:
great point on Mike Stark, Amy.


Amy Ringenbach:
Several friends write regularly on OpEd News, which is-- I grant you-- kinda like bird-cage liner.


jdp23:
every bit helps


jdp23:
Amy, how well do you know Mike?


Amy Ringenbach:
Who of us has a presence on Digby? CorrenteWire?


jdp23:
nobody as far as i know


Amy Ringenbach:
And I have reaches into progressive sites in MI, AR, AK, LA, FL, UT..


Amy Ringenbach:
I seem to recall that Jim had or has Digby access?


jdp23:
not as far as i know. Harry says she's good at responding to emails.


jdp23:
openleft: Harry to contact Chris


jdp23:
Momocrats: Jon to contact Cynthia


jdp23:
jon to contact PunditMom


Amy Ringenbach:
I met Mike in August. He covered that huge health care town hall in Philly, where with just a day and half lead time, my networking brought out 1000 people filled the place and it made wall to wall news.


Amy Ringenbach:
HUFFpo's Denise Denise covered it and said what my team did should be repeated across the country. Mike was stunned and helped me drive the story nationally.


jdp23:
clay shirky, micah sifry, tvr folks in general: jon


jdp23:
cool, i'll cc you on my email to him


jdp23:
DREAM Activists: Jon


Amy Ringenbach:
Ha~ he was so jazzed he offerred to drive me to Netroots in Pittsburgh to explain how I did it.


Amy Ringenbach:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/denise-dennis/health-care-opponents-out_b_259039.html


Amy Ringenbach:
"In preparation for the town meeting, MoveOn and various local groups that support health care reform contacted their network of members and encouraged them to turn-out for the event and outnumber tea-baggers and others who might try to prevent citizens from asking questions. The result was so successful it could serve as a model for town meetings across the country."

HarryWaisbren:
Jon: 7 pm EST call monday. Don't separate it as an event, just something for us to now about as a fall back


jdp23:
very cool, Amy!


jdp23:
we wound up the phone call


Amy Ringenbach:
(This other conf call is ending.. I'll call into you guys in a jiff..)


jdp23:
too late!