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Welcome to our latest Patriot Act and FISA organizing call


[Comment From Soren Soren: ]
Hello!


[Comment From jdp23 jdp23: ]
howdy Harry ... i'm just dialing in now ...

Harry Waisbren:
Hi there Soren and Jon

Jim Burrows:
Hello, all


jdp23:
chip, soren, jim, jessica, jon, mark, harry

main focus on this meeting is on open letter and the tweetchats

Jon: CDT has a great cheat sheet on house and sneate amendments. At least the biggest ones


jdp23:
wired article at http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/11/patriot-act

Jon: legsilative scheduling. Last I heard, the Reyes house intelligence bill wasn't up. Anyone know if it's up there?

Jessica: I haven't seen or heard anythign in the past couple of days

Jon: haven't seen any alerts, assumption that it's still not going to be scheduled. Strategically, this means it's once again going to get down to a looming deadline

Jon: bills ahve to make it throught eh ouse, senate, through conference, and back with a deadline of dec 31 (with holidays in there)

Jon: given that, what does that say to us about hte timing for hte open letter?

Jon: could try to do it before thanksgiving or after as people are comign back

Mark: it just occurred to me that we are not in a position where anyone neesd anything form us. Votes or support

Mark: last July, candidate Obama needed to at the very least placate us.

Mark: Harry raised a question on where we stood in pecking orders of groups on OFA, we are about number 10 now, but are largest issue group. Others are seniors, women, etc.


mark: we're still the largest issue group on OFA.

Mark: I dont' know in terms of the open letter. I know waht we want, if you excuse me, we don't have anything to give. That bothers me deeply.


harry: if we could drive the story into the media cycle, that's at least a stick that they don't want to deal with


harry: less of a positive incentive than before, in terms of rallying their grassroots supporters; at least it's something

Mark: not a question of point of a letter. I think we need to get out here and make some noise. At the moment, confused about how to best do it.

Mark: think the open letter is a great focus, but int erms of content and how we play it, I think Harry's right that if there is some way to shake the media tree with the letter or in addition to it we shoudl focus on that.


jessica: if the letter is in good shape and is able to go out before the thanksgiving holiday, that's a good goal if we're looking forward to the rest of the year.


jessica: i think we have a chance at getting more media attention with the spotlight on the trials in new york.

Jessica: I think if hte letter is in good shape and is able to go aout befoe tahnksgiving holiday, then that's a good goal if we're looking towards end of hte year

Jessica: between hoidays, I don't know what if anythign realistically is going to get looked at with allt he other legislative priorities. Have potential to get into a little hotter of media cycle with the conitnuing pecking on the outside of hte trails in new york.

Jessica; ancillary issues, but part of alrge conversaiton that we can wedge awy into in a positive way. Only if we're ready. IF it needs more time we need more time

Mark: very god connection. In fact, political connection I see is much of the political forces want to do things secretly.

Mark: thread btw trials in NY and so forth and these FISA bills going thorugh at hte last minute

Mark: media atteniton, all of it, pointed the other way

Mark: I'm not sure that's not a deliberate strategy by the white house.


Mark: could have taken these bills up for eharing and iscussion any time. Left it to the last minute knowing that teh expiration, the attention that these other issues would get.

Mark: all the critical things of sacrificing the constitution don't jsut seem that importnat to the media


harry: that can work on the flip side too. if we can put the attention and say "you won't get a bill unless you support these", just as with health care put pressure


harry: in regards to media aspects, we're designing the tweetchats to attract media. have it be the place to go for relevant commentary.

Jon: it's a chicken and egg thing. Jouranlists want ot right about it, if they know about the tweetchat, they will be attracted.

Jon: how do we get journalists to the point where they want to write about it?

Jon: as JEssica says, the key to this is we don't want to send the open letter out before it's ready.

Jon: I know Amy, Jim, Mark, harry have been owrking on it a lot. How clsoe is it


Soren:
Where is the Google Doc version?

Amy: pretty close. only thing missing at this point is a little more about how the lone wolf provision looks like it's going to be dropped based ont eh voets that we witnesed


jdp23:
soren: http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AU13bHqTsohYZGZicTliMmhfOGN6cHRqamc2&hl=en

Amy: not sure if it will get built back in in senate, but looks promising

Jim: do we need that in the letter?

Amy: I don't know. suggestion


harry: agree with Amy that we're close. yesterday we took a step back after Mark's draft, looked at what the key elements are and hwo to parallel last summer's which was very successful


harry: there are so many great things we want to incude. the key is to make is short enough, and have the tone right.


Amy: based on teh conversation in last tweetchat, live druing HJC, I think we have got some monetum here that if we trump it that we're rolling out this letter and inviting signatories, and we can key into ccr's filing two days ago, I think we can get some traction

Amy: only thing that is going to allay that is all the HCR stuff still on teh docket

Amy: issue in the state of hte union. take advantage of delay in HCR legislation, mgiht be window for us here


harry: i think we're pretty close, as long as we decide on what's needed to close it out. we want to be as democratic as we can be; need to decide on the process to close it out.

Amy: one of us were going to reach into senate offices to pave the road for our continuing conversaton. Anyone done it?


[Comment From korkie korkie: ]
sorry I'm late ......

Mark: number of calls, gotten no where


jdp23:
amy: one of us was going to reach into Senate offices to pave the road for continuing conversations. Mark: I've made a number of calls, gotten nowhere.


jdp23:
hi korkie!

Jon: so back to Harry's point about process which is a real importnat one.

Jon: can't write letters through pure democracy. Peopel who ahve been working on it ahve the final say

Jon: suggest if we can get to a draft that we are happy wtih, then I say send it back to the email/FB groups as final draft, point people toward the blog, commitment is we'll read and respond to all comments. INcorporate as much as makes sense.

Jon: poeple have had plenty of opporunties to take part in drafting.


Jim: my writing style is long winded, been not writing so we can keep it short and punchy

Jim: Hary an I have had a lot of good conversations, so I have faith in him representting my opinions

Amy: work Haryr and I have done so far ahas been jduicious of poitn and tone of previous letter


Mark: without puncihng a point too many times, in last letter there was an input not too hidden saying that if we don't get any response you ahve 23,000 people and however many of htem who are going to drop out of the activism

Mark: not stated, but the tone of the letter. Why we got the response we got from Obama

Mark: just to make a point, suppose that we come up with an ideal letter adn it gets some play amongst our community and some minor play in the medai, and absolutely nothing happens.

mark: presdient still working with committee staff behind clsoed doors. no one pays attention. Waht is the consequeneces of house, senate, or white hosue?

Jon: turn it around, great quesiton, but corrollary. Waht we also said in thep revious lette,r if you give us the right repsonse, we'll be inspired and work for your success

Jon: this time if we get hte rsponse we want, what is it we will do?

Jon: not big enough to threaten

Jon: brainstomring, can we tie this into revitalizing hte kinds of activism that was so successful in his campaign. applying this in a govenring role as well. revitalizing OFA.

Harry: I think that's a great idea!

amy: OFA starting local shops like GOP

Amy: last thing they want to hear is we are going to go away or elsewhere


Amy: the last thing OFA wasnts to hear is that we'll go elsewhere -- Green party, etc.

Jim: recent interim elections suggest that 2010 coudl go well or badly for them dpeending on which results we look at.


Jim: don't want acitivsts who have been on their side to note be. Don't ahve such a huge lead in teh world that htey can seunader htese things

Jesscia; interestin gcoaliton of these people. Not deyd in wool party loyalsits. Suggesting maintain efforts with OFA would be attractive to them with the eyes toward the midterms


Harry: brings up a great point about broadening the issue, not just focus on the particulars. key ask is him being transparent and really saying what he thinks. relate that to other issues. Tell us what he wants, and we'll help him do it

Amy: we may want to consier adding into the letter, keying into what you jsut said.

Amy: we are doing what you asked to help you bring your vision of change

Amy: will contnue to help you providing that xyz

Chip: my mind is still realing form this meeting with Obama in Shanghai. Big supporter of non-cencorship, but those participating in the meeting had their questions pre-screened, so called marquee events was not picked up by Chinese governemtn news broadcasts.

Chip: brief mietnions on chinese websites were removed.

Chip: find quote form meeting where he says he learns form disssenters, from opinions that disagre, quote back, coudl be a good hook depending on whenw e send the letter

chip: find quote from his China presentation: "i learn from the dissenters whose opinions are different than mine"

Chip: still reeling from surreal nature of htat, considering continuintion of so many Bush policies. Warratnless surveillance, indefinite detention, cluster of issues.

Chip: policies Bush ahd related to unitary executive theory are continuing. Congress copmpeltely out to lunch, not jsut GOP, but dms too.

Chip: agree that signal from recent elections, especially loss of idnependnets, is a potential political magnet that we can use to draw their atteniton to this aissue again

Chip: say they need this coaltion to make ground on eahlthcare, climate change, etc.

Chip: issues they care about will dpeend on this coalition. Even in a non-presidential eleciton year

Mark: I totally agree, and furthermore, after brooding on this, I would not be opposed to drafting hte best letter we can by the wend of hte week or whatever.

Mark: take it, rather or in additon to, to our people. Go to CATO, go to someone repserensting independent voters. Go to CCR, or whoever

Mark: not left wing groups entirely

Mark: see if we can come up with a joint letter. Offer it to them as a draft, come out with someone with political reprsentation that may we are in league or whatever.

Mark: white house, which does not want these changes to the patriot act or FISA, is my bottom line, wah they want is for us to go away

Mark: we're not about, at least speaking for msyelf, about to offer that to them.

Jim Burrows:
In addition to the groups just mentioned: Campaign for Liberty

Amy: we wouldn't be on the call if we weren't with you

Mark: i'm waiting to face the whtie hosue with a couple hundred thousand or million votesr iwht a demand

Jon: I like point of reaching otu to these other groups across thep olitical spectrum

Jon: intersting idea that what we have at the end of htis week doesn't need to be our fianl, fianl letter.

Jon: want something we can start circulating for signatures with a goal of using that to spark the broader conversation

Jon: coudl be followed by addition petitions, toher letters, a revised draft in conjunciton with other organizitons

Amy: first of that is once we decide ont he final draft, waht we will do is campaign where all of us will be tweeting it.

Amy: much the same way that you will be tweetin glinks to X petition

Jesscia; care2 petition makes sense as well.

Jessica: I can do it with the first rollout of letter and follow up etition. Wen it gets picked up from other gorups, can wait to signal from you gusy when ready and I will coordiante that effort

amy: I have press conferences, an d presences on a varieyt of blogs

Jessica: coordiante eforts so it's as uniform as we can be

Jessica: if Huffpo picks up petition or through teweets, than that gets legs very quickly

amy: way we do the tweets is we note the bills. 500, 1000, 5,000

Jessica; I agree with that

Jon: tweet out threshold of signatuers

Jim: Mark is right of the organizations we should try to pull in

Jim: vlevet glove is being polite. Bu want ot make sure they udnerstand that we have a reaosnt o be polite

Jon: let's work thorugh a rough nominal schedule

Jon: let's say final draft, is it reaosnalbe ot think tongiht or tomorrow night

amy: tomorrow night, commitment in morning


jdp23: launch and invite people to sign on.


Amy: also share with Credo, PFAW, True Majority


Harry: coordinate launch with Tweetchat, to bring discussion across partisan groups.


jdp23: friday's not a good day to launch. how about next Tuesday?

Amy: Holder speak tomorrow on prosecutions. May touch on some of this. May color oru works


Amy: Holder's speaking before the Senate tomorrow. he has preliminary comments today ... whatever he says in the senate tomorrow could color our work; need to tune into that.

Amy: email pettion query?

Jon: we don't ahve that

Jon: could partner with someone who does have that maybe

Jon: Chip, BORDC just appointed peopel. Do you do your own or point people to someone else for patriot lobbying?

Chip: not sure of our tech to do CREDO like petitoin. Usually do it through our networks of suppporters, get partenrs nad people's coampaing for constituiton to send it out. Links that ay.

Chip: have done it in a different way in the past. Let you know

Jon: post on blog best way to let us know

Jon: one thing we can do is to try and start a new OFA group and have hte peopel in that gorup bascially be th signers of this new level

Chip: Fragment efforts? significantly diminished in practice compared to last year. Build up group instead of complexity, drastaciton, divide us.

Jon: peopel wh have not yet joiend group can sign by join it. Out of 23,000 signers last year, ohw do we ant to encourage them

Mark: two groups of peope. Big oen with 23,000 who are dormant and probably not reachable.

Mark: should put up a blog within OFA that says someonething like "urgent: if you are still reading this, please wake up"

Mark: about 1/10, about 2,400 on list serv. Send them once letter is ready a big all caps "urgent: if you've een with us before, be with us now"


jdp23: how to sign on to the letter? on OFA, blog post with the open letter and ask people to sign by putting comments on the blog post?

Jon: that makes sense. Ask them to sign by putting comment on the blog post

Jim: somethign like that might not be too bad. Want implication that 23,000 alreayd are a part of it

Jim: ask to make comment on blog post, certaintly not huge number do. If large fraciton do though, it makes point we are still there. Let's leave 23,000 beacuse it's not to our advantage to make them resign

Amy: jsut an idea. I have a letter ready to go that would send to 2,100 peopel in my networks once we're ready to roll

Jon: i'll probably be firing similar email off to a few thousand to 5 thousand in vairous networks

Jon: want crips call, here's how you sign

Harry: last time, it was join the group to sign. we want to parallel this. i'm hesitant to say "comment on the blog post".

Mark: feel if we are going to ahe any efectiveness at all, ahve to make metnal transition in our midns that the white house is our oppostion

Mark: not a matter of getting Obama or osmeone in white house to do what they want to do but are unaware of the need for it

Mark: are opposed, strongly, to making the changes int eh patriot act and FISa that we want, that Feingodl wants and so on

Mark: need to keep that in mind. Only way we put pressure on them is to get them to chagne their minds

Mark: not going to be done with 2,000 or 20,000 people online. going to be a NYT editorial

Amy: one way we build that presence and that pressure at NYT, they know power of social media, if we all done have a log on to times people we need one

Amy: anything tha relates to the patriot act, attorney general holder, we need to make cogent, binding, not offensive, coments that get pubilshed to build presence

Amy: metnion GFR

Chip: I agree with alst 3 speakers. Anotehr option that may be able to get us on the NYT website and maybe the opinion editors attention is to see if we can do a debate of the sort they had this week on military commissions

Chip: good debate on there, if you read the whole debate, no way to know that anyone in saying that it's a good thing to have htese separate military commission. Administraiton is having it boht ways

Chip: so typical of thier approach to thse issues. Have a debate like that on FISA and Patriot Act issue ont he pages int hat form the blog, that could help get the NYT attention

Amy: dovetail on what Julian said on HJC tweetchat. NSL letters went out, less than 1% determiend to be terrorists

Jon: agreed ont he value of getting things in to the times. My only route here is on the social media side.

Jon: once laucnehd, can hav ea teaser. Follow up with Noem cohen who wort about GFR last summer and voter suppression wiki, can see if he has interst

Amy: anyone ahve reach to Noam Chomsky?

Chip: why ask? chomsky is a polarizing figure

Amy: hosting conversation with senator whitehouse. retweeting, waiting for nod back. Another way to go. Go throug nation and John Nichols

Jon: Nation was a great freind to us in the past

Jon: more about waht you're thinking about senator whitehouse thing, getting a question there to start getting discussions?

amy: to dovetail mark's queeries, reach into his legislative office and get somebody's ear there. suggest that we perhpas can do an oped that we can dovetail in NYT to add more thunder

Jon: but he's not on our side on this.

Amy: lookin for a leading national spokesperson who is not identified as purely left to elad this discussion as it reaches the senate in public

amy: not just conyers, someone like Whitehouse

Jon: in his votes on judiciary comittee, whtiehosue is with the adminsitraiton on this

Amy: right now Arlen is blowing whatever way teh otes will blow

Amy: yes, eh coudl be his champion, and I have multiple reaches into his campaign. Just bear in hmind that he's playing political expediencey. Could be to our advantge I grant you

Jon: agreed. See it as all complmeentary.

Jon: first question. Do we want to laucnh next modnay or tuesday?

Amy: Monday night into Tuesday.

Jon: mail, blog psots, tweeting, ahppens monday night. Actual event, tweetchat, possibly a press call Tuesday

Jessica; i can get a post up Monday night

Amy: what kind of press call are we atlking about?

Jon: don't have anything particular in mind. Just often is useful to arrange one essentially to give reporters a bunch of informaiton and a reason for coverage


jdp23: launch posts + email are Monday night

Jon: voter suppression wiki adn som other eleciton protection gorups I was on did this very effecively. Made it enough of an event where poeple went to several outelts and got coverage

Jon: might make sense ot make it a post thanksgiving call

jdp23: launch event: tweetchat on Tuesdaty

Amy: my feelign is let's get some thunder first. Get signatures into thosuadns, set pace, before we do press call

Amy: let's let the numbers of peole who sign it and then drop into a press call

Jon: BTW now and then have to figure out how do people sign?


jdp23: between now and then, we have to figure out how do people sign

Harry: Join OFA group again?

Amy: OFA one path. Don't know we hae teh mechanics to build a database into it.

jdp23: 1) OFA group. 2) Care2 3) Twitter 4) Facebook

Jon: not sure our goal is to build a database in partiuclar

Jon: it's a valid question, soemthign that's been debated int he past

Jon: I see goal as to maximize the number of poele sgining it. Make it easy to sign in whatever domain. Why I think care2 is so impornatt

JOn: plenty on Care2 not on OFA likely to sign on Care2, not likely to sign OFA

Amy: flipside is if we build a new poer base if you will on OFA, we cannot be ignored


harry: it's the argumetn that we're his supporters that can work with him on future things. however i also understand jon's point about maximizing the people we can get

Amy: anyoen think fi we drove peopel to OFA that indvidiuals who wanted to sign on would resist it?

Chip: lot of people. If I weren't invovled I woudlnt' go to OFA udner teh circumstnaes. Many feel that way, so disappoitned iwht the admin

Mark: history of OFA since eleciton day is a deliberate straegy of Obama and Axelrod. Waht they wanted explicitly for OFA to just go away.

Mark: I sent a personal representtaive into the wthie house on the 10th of April when all this was blowing up. Carter's director of public outreach who I worked every ohour of every day wtih for years, now an old woman named Anne Wxler

Mark: sent her to ameeting with Tina ____. All read to her, alnog wiht agenda, along with real cooperative things we needed her to do on behalf of whitehosue to get OfA.

Makr: response was "we know what w'ere doing"

Mark: what we ned here is to have the ability, way beyond my capability, for poeple to get informed on this in basic turns and poitn and click to sign someting

Mark: what it is or who it's with is of secondary importnace

Mark: need people to get an alert, maybe a couple of paragraphs of what this is all about. If you want to sign on, click here, the end fo it

Jon: the challenge is the "here" is different in different enviornemtns

Jon: for oeple on OFa, click here is join the gorup. On FB it's join a FB group. For care2 or petition site, is sign the petition.

what about embeddable widgets from Ask teh PResident?

Jon: not a bad idea, can see if site is still up

harry: a good way to get ari melber back in the fold. Key si something that you can embed on other sites.


jdp23: ask the president: http://www.communitycounts.com/forum/?id=obama

Jon: is a site that let's people submit questions, vote on which ones they like. Simple thumbs up or thumbs down, can embed on blogs

Chip: Ari's connection?

Jon: the guy who came up with the idea, got it talked aroudn to put it forward.

Jon: interesting ot htink about, was a coaltion between the antion. washignotn times, and personal democracy forum/PDF on the nonparitsan side.

Jon: was a bipartisan colation

Jon: intersting idea to think about

Amy: do you want me to reach into contacts iwht peopel for americans way?

Jon: tha'td be great

Harry: I'll send out a doodle poll with times for Thursday

Jon: do that, then schedule tweetchat for next tuesday. Late morning east coast time to give htose of us on teh west coast.

Jon: touch base wtih kevin, jluian, CC me on it. Others we want on it. someone of the female persuasion.

Amy: I know korkie and rebecca from ACLU want to be invovled.

Jon: Michelle Richardson

Harry: Amy from BORDC


korkie:
I'm not with ACLU

Harry: Key to get the right mix ideologically and demographically. will send out another doodle poll


korkie:
independent

Harry: didn't mean to imply that korkie


jdp23: all to finish revising letter: Amy + Harry have


korkie: that's okay ...

Amy: post final ideas. Looking good, last final thoughts, please chime in

Jon: thougths on this call about trying to tie in to the revitalizing the "what will we do for you" if this works. tie into that

Amy: we are a force to be reckoned with. 23,000 is not shabby.

Amy: one thing towards the end of hte ltter to add is that.

Amy: those 23,000 have networks like we do


korkie: do we have access to those 23,000 ppl's email.

Jon: from obama perspecive, si do we engage with helping your agenda or do you alienate us

Amy: idea, just a thought, include an idea "each of us is a community organizer"

Everyone: gerat idea


[Comment From Jessica Jessica: ]
Sorry- call dropped

Jon: Harry a blog post tomorrow night (morning less preferable) to go out to everyone

Jon: meet thrusday to discsus, work out mechanics

Jon: final prepration assuming the laucnh monday night, launch event tuesday at tweetchat


jdp23: no worries Jessica, we're just double-checking the aciton items one more time

Amy: laucnh on twitter, engage, do press bombs


jdp23: if you don't already have a presence on the new york times -- a login and can comment on article.

Harry: Great call everyone, thanks so much!

Harry: I'll leave this chat room open in case anyone has other links or thoughts, or just want to continue discussing here.


korkie:
thanks all!

Harry: Thank you Korkie---you've been absolutely amazing at RTing on Twitter! Sincerely appreciate your help.